OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Hand and Power Tolls Power Tools chinese generator

I recently bought one of those cheap chinese 4 stroke generators off Ebay to use on a camping trip for a week.They are a Honda look alike.It has a remote control start as well as pull start and worked like a clock for a week. Trouble is after i got home and left it unstarted for 2 weeks it refuses to start.It will run if I put some fuel down the plug hole but thats the only way I can get it to fire.Does anyone have any clues what may be wrong??? cheers

gac,

It could be a number of things that could be causing your problems.

1. Choke not going on properly.

2. The inlet valve might not be seating properly.

3. One of the valves is sticking.

4. Carburettor could be partial blocked jet.

One other thing just check the muffler does not have a wasp nest in it.

Does it keep running properly after you prime it to start? If so, you most likely are not getting the cold enrichment system to work. That will be either a primer bulb or a choke.

It will run properly once you get it to start,it will then start with little effort.Its like the carby isn't getting fuel. They recommend on initial start up to pump the primer about 20 times but this now does not work.The choke is a vacuum type solenoid,so basically it is on till the engine starts and then the vacuum pulls the choke off.could it be the system is sucking air??The primer bulb seems to do nothing.

If the choke is automatic and it is closed when the engine is cold and not running, it is most likely OK. If the engine runs properly once it starts, there is probably no problem with the basic carburetor or the fuel system. It sounds as if your problem is with the priming system. Since they say prime it 20 times, they seem to be expecting that the priming system itself will lose prime, and you are supposed to pump air until it finally manages to achieve a liquid seal in the pump, after which it will work properly until it dries out. In other words the priming system is probably crummy, and the manufacturer knows it. This is one of those situations where you are likely to have to either fit new parts to the priming system after each week of actual use, or change the design of the priming system so it works better than the original one. Neither of those options seems all that convenient - I hope the generator was very cheap.

It is difficult to help you with a redesign of the system without seeing the machine. Difficulty priming the primer is likely to be due to one of two things: fuel level well below the primer, so it is difficult to prime the pump; or poor quality priming pump, so it is not good at pumping air. One thing you can try immediately: make sure the fuel tank is completely full whenever you try to cold-start the machine. This reduces the distance the fuel level is below the primer.

Thanks Grumpy for your quick reply.I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head. The generator came with extensive instructions as to how to initially prime it and then how to keep it primed.Also after use when not using for a while they recommend to drain the carby which i found strange??
The generator was $700 and is fairly well made,they are being sold at every caravan yard all over Australia.I primed it through the head again today and started it every half hour all day long,didn't miss a beat.I wouldn't mind spending a bit of money to make it reliable as the beauty of it is it has a key AND remote control start!!something Honda can't do in a 2kva potable generator.I think you are also right about the primer bulb the one on my yard blower is far better.I have a 2kva Honda and am considering taking it apart to see how it is primed?? I will post some photo's of the fuel system for your (and others) thoughts.Thanks again,cheers Greg

it may be an idea to check the fuel delivery to the primer its self. often things wont prime when the filters or lines get a bit crudded up. i agree with grumpy that priming systems are basically crap these days and have modified too many to count.
regards jay

One thing to bear in mind is that a really tiny leak in the priming pump intake valve will cause exactly what you are experiencing. Taking out the moving parts of the priming pump (most likely in the cavity right behind the primer bulb) and carefully cleaning them might do the trick. Remember, you are trying to get a liquid pump to work well pumping air: it doesn't take much of a leak to stop it in its tracks. Be gentle - taking Chinese plastic pumps apart and reassembling them successfully is a job for a watchmaker with a sense of humour.

I have taken some photo's to post of my generator but am not sure how to upload them. Any hints would be appreciated.

Hi Gac,

The forum help area is a good place to start or even by pressing the FAQ button at the top of the forum is good because it explains how to load pictures etc.

Click HERE to go to one of the post by Deejay regarding uploading pictures.

hopfully you can find my photos from the following link,http://www4.snapfish.com.au/snapfishau/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=2179908019/a=3644159019_3644159019/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/
Let me know ifthat doesn't work

[img]http://http://www4.snapfish.com.au/snapfishau/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=2179908019/a=3644159019_3644159019/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/[/img]

Hi gac, we have tried to correct the links to your pics, but have had no luck. Snapfish require log-in details to get to the tags.....Could you post your pics in "Photobucket" and follow the instructions; click HERE and all should be OK.
Best of luck with it.

Thanks Dj for your effort,by using snapfish which came with my new laptop, I was just trying to limit the number of programmes(and logins,and passwords I have already forgotten) to a minimum. Everyone says its "easy' just download "such and such a programme and away you go" and it all ends up adding to further clutter on the hardrive .But of course there is no conformity on these things so one can't complain,yet from here i can't see your "download pictures" tab??. Absolutely love this site but it is kind of frustrating to navigate around sometimes.My pics are on photo bucket but I am still unsure as to how to link them to this post.Maybee you can break it down very simply,step by step,"once more for the dumbies" Cheers GAC

dj,Hope these links work.cheers GAC

Thanks DJ for making my photo's magically appear.
Can anyone give some hints as to how to improve this fuel system (if at all possible). I changed the primer bulb today which was kindly posted by the guy I bought it from on Ebay.It still took about 60-70 pumps to get the fuel up and again once it starts it will start all day. This ,as I think i posted earlier, is unlike when I first primed and started it when I could come back the next day and kick it over with no priming. So to summaries it is basically loosing prime overnight. Any thoughts?? Cheers GAC

If you have replaced the entire primer bulb/pump, there seem to be two generic possibilities remaining: an air lock downstream of the primer bulb/pump, or an air leak or liquid lock upstream of the primer bulb/pump. If there were a downstream air lock, the pump would be unable to pump out the air inside the bulb and replace it with fuel because there was nowhere for the air to go. You would probably know if that were happening because the bulb would become difficul to pump after a few strokes. If there were an upstream air leak, air would be getting into the fuel hose when you applied suction with the primer bulb/pump. An upstream liquid lock would be something like a sticky valve in that round device you are holding in the photo. You would need to check the fuel hose connections for leaks, and examine that strange round device, which might be a fuel pump. If one of its connections or its diaphragm leaks air, or its intake valve is a bit sticky, all may be explained. We'd need a proper diagram and explanation of that rather complex fuel system to be much more helpful, I think. My guess is a serviceman would replace the priming bulb/pump, and if that didn't fix it, replace the fuel pump (if that's what the round thing is). Most likely it would be one or the other, and he'd have fixed it within ten minutes.

once again i agree with grumpy about the fuel pump. i assume the pump is one that relies on crankcase suction to form a vacuumed which opens and closes a rubber diaphragm to pump fuel through. these particular pumps are very susceptible to tearing the diaphragm and therefore restricting the vacuum and not letting the diaphragm pump.
if the fuel tank could be mounted higher than the carby then the whole pump wouldn�t be needed at all and you could do away with all the crap. if you can get a replacement pump off the bloke you got the generator for free then try that. if all else fails then you could replace the pump with a Briggs and Stratton crankcase vacuum pump which i have found very reliable in the past. this is the type of pump i explained before. this all relies on weather or not you have the option of using crankcase vacuum which i think you do
regards jay

Thanks guys for your quick responses.You guys are definately on the money, The "round thing"is definately a fuel pump of the daiphragm type pumped by crancase vacuum.You can see the line comming from the crancase in the first photo. I have very carefully pulled this apart to check for damage,and apart from being fairly basic in construction, it appears ok.When I pump the primer bulb there are air bubbles in both the bulb and the fuel filter after the fuel pump.If there was an air leak wouldn't that translate to a fuel leak at some point??

Bubbles in the fuel line means either a suction air leak, or a blocked fuel tank air vent. If it was the fuel tank air vent it would not run properly after starting, so a fuel line air leak is more likely - but check the tank vent anyway, because a high enough vacuum in the tank can cause the fuel pump to misbehave.

Check for air bubbles in the primer bulb when the engine is running - air may be entering the system steadily, but once the fuel pump starts operating, it has enough capacity to pump air and fuel simultaneously.

You would not necessarily get a fuel leak if there is an air leak upstream of the fuel pump or primer pump. Liquids are much easier to seal than air - a pinhole air leak will stop the primer from working but may not leak fuel at all.

If you are sure that there is no air leak into the fuel pump (which is under suction when you operate the primer, remember) or a malfunctioning fuel pump valve, then check the joints in the various hoses attached to the fuel pump and the primer pump.

Thanks Grumpy for the hints,I have considered replacing all the fuel lines with ones of known quality (though I don't know of a good brand??),as i did origionally find one hose split where it connected to the fuel pump and of course thought my problem was solved( Of course not). Also the little spring hose clamps are rather flimsy,If these are not tight enough could they be a problem,air wise??. And could I replace them with something else??Also do you think replacing the pump with a quality one (as mowernut suggested above)could be done??and if so with what type of pump??Will check the breather valve straight away.Thanks again Cheers GAC

Rather than replace the hoses and clamps, you could remove and check them. Verify that the clamps are spring steel: when you squeeze them to the fully-open point (tabs in line with each other) and release them, they must come back to the original dimensions. You do not want heavy clamping pressure from those clips, their purpose is mainly to keep the hoses from sliding off. The hoses themselves should be OK unless they are split, which is easy to check once you remove them.
My preferred diagnostic method with things like that fuel pump is to keep a spare one that I know is good, and just switch them whenever I'm unsure about the one I'm using. Can you get a spare fuel pump from the person who supplied the spare primer pump? Keep the original primer pump too, so you can swap that as well in future when testing is necessary.
So far as fitting a different fuel pump is concerned, I think that would be premature. Personally I prefer not to modify things unless I'm sure the original version didn't work. You don't know yet that the fuel pump has problems, and if it does, you don't know that a standard replacement would have problems. Cobbled stuff is often unreliable, for various reasons.

do you have a vacuum tester? such as the ones used in automotive for testing carbys ect? if you measure the amount of vacuum at the fuel line and primer bulb then you would be able to work out weather you have a fair pressure or weather its only sucking a small amount of fuel. i will go and measure the amount of crankcase vacuum on my ride on so you can compare the pressures to something.
im not suggesting jumping to the conclusion that your is no good but if you can test the pressures then you will have something to compare it to.
regards jay

Hi gac,
I think I can help you out here, I ve had a similar problem on some other equipment fitted with a tilliston diaphram pumper carb.
Please note that we are looking at the "valve diaphram" and not the vacuum diaphram in the unit.
Take the pump apart again and inspect the surface around the "flaps" of the valve diaphrams on the metal parts. These act like a non return valve and stop the unit from loosing prime.
How to fix:
Buy some 1200 wet and dry and take your parts too the local Cemetary ??? yes we are going to talk to the dead
no we just need a nice flat surface of machine ground granite!
Use the wet and dry on the granite and wet with WD 40 gently lap the sealing face in a figure 8 motion on the wet and dry (make sure the granite is free from dirt / dust first)
Check out the plate after a quick lap to see for a dull grey where the high spots are.
Keep going until you get an even dull grey around the "flap" valve areas on both parts that need lapping.
Also check that the diaphram valve material is not "burred" from the machine that made it in china. you may have to gently correct this by running you finger nail around the edge, or use an iron and put the diaphram valve between two sheets of paper over a flat hard surface; I can imagine quite a site in the cemetary now
If you get this far and all is well, nice grey flat surface and flat diaphram valve edges you have done all that can be done here.
As for the primer if it is easy to get at with the covers on, could you fit a small outboard motor primer? two squeezes on one of those should do it!
Happy lapping!!!
Oh yeah dont forget to talk to the dead while you do this you get great looks from others, just for a giggle, a word of warning though dont lap in a 666 motion!

Thanks for the tip fast grass, fortunately I have just installed a new kitchen with smooth stone benchtops so I wont have to risk being arrested for performing satanic rituals at the local cemetery but I see where you are heading I definitely think the diaphragm could do with an iron,Cheers GAC

Will attempt all fixes this weekend and risk death by trying not to get WD 40 on the new benchtop,thanks guys, will let you know,cheers GAC

MMM use water on the wet dry, it might save you from a fate worse than death mate! WD 40 on the new kitchen bench top ..... you'd be a brave soul to try that....
Good luck,
John

Gday everyone,
Just an update on the genny. I have dismantled the fuel pump and as advised I have smoothed out the mated surfaces with 1200 wet and dry (on the new benchtop with water,and lived to tell the tale)( just had to do it when the minister for war was at work).They were in a very poor state with cast marks and burrs. After I reinstalled it does seem to prime up better.
I think now the problem is in the carby. It will only start now if I pump the prime about 20 times (instead of the previous 70)and advance,or open, the throttle slightly. So I am thinking the set up may be wrong.
There seems to be only 2 adjustments,one for idle speed and another which I am not sure about. It is a brass screw which I don't think I should play with too much.It is very loose so If it is an important adjustment,there is nothing stopping it rattling to where it likes. I have taken some close up photo's, I hope they will appear.http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/chapconn/P8120546.jpg http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/chapconn/P8120547.jpg
Any thoughts are always greatly appreciated, Cheers Greg

Two small points, Greg. First, you need a space between the full stop after "appear" and "http", to make your first picture accessible. Second, you have said that the generator runs well after it starts. Jet adjustments are a bad idea as long as that is the case.

It sounds to me as if you probably still have at least one air leak upstream of your primer. It may be that you haven't yet got the pump completely fixed. Alternatively - and less likely - there may be a second problem with the fuel lines.

MMMM I wonder if that screw is far too loose? and it should be tightend.? Carby screws should not be that loose! My theory being that if cracking or advancing the throttle to get it to start is actuating the main fuel circuit as there may be too much air getting past this screw if it is part of the idle air or fuel bleed circuit, there fore delaying activation of the fuel into the engine beyond resonable limits.

When the engine fires up does it appear to be rich? i.e. is their black smoke from the exhaust or is it "clean"?
This should give you a few clues, but from reading it seems like a lack of fuel

If you find a sweet engine starting point and the screw is still "loose" raid the wife's fingernail paints and paint plenty around the screw to hold it right, this may even stop any other air leaks if this is the trouble.

Gac,

Did you check the 'O' ring on the main jet (it is under the idle screw) and give it a good clean out as well.

Hi guys,
Just noticed your posts after being away for a while.
The last time I played with the thing I could get it to start first time every time by closing the choke leaver (the grey leaver that is operated by the vacuume type solenoid),it is not a solid thing,meaning it has some slack in it,and if I twist it towards the closed direction it would start. So then i thought it was just a matter of adjusting the choke angle by sliding the wire through to the right point.Unfortunately I can't seem to find the happy medium,if I let it close too much the thing "hunts" where there is not enough speed to operate the solenoid.So I have attempted to adjust the idle speed (black phillips head screw) and the "jet" screw (brass)to to get a happy medium but so far havn't sucseeded.Really I don't have a clue as to how to set it up correctly. Any thoughts???

Played with the thing again last weekend and the problem is definately to do with the choke. Had it firing up all day but once it gets a bit cold it will not start unless I force the choke closed more. As i said previous adjusting it closed more only leaves it running too roughly to get the vacuume to work and it just hunts along. Bruce i did remove the main jet completely to look for an 'O' ring but it doesn't seem to have one. Also as fast grass has suggested ,once I thought I had it running sweet I covered the thing in nail polish wich hopefully sealed it as well. Does anyone have any ideas with the vacuume thing,a sring maybee??Cheers Greg

I would suggest that you ignore the choke issue and get it running warmed up and run it hard under load for a few mins and then kill it. Pull the plug and check it for colour. (called a plug chop)

If its a nice colour (white is lean, black is rich, aim for a grey-brown) you have the jetting right.


Get your tools out, remove that choke pot etc and throw it in the bin. Block up the vacuum line prefferably at the source.
Then using some smarts, which after reading this thread, im sure youve got, fasion yourself up a bit of a ye olde style choke lever.
Take care and think idiot when you make up whatever, that lever on the carb looks like its fantastic plastic, last thing you want is to do a fantastic job and have it work well for 10 years then have a gung ho mate get all heavy handed and break the thing.

Not sure how it all fits under the cover. But im sure with a rod, some extra straightened out wire the same guage, you could make something up, run it through some bits of tin plate with holes in it as a guide. With a spring you could have it work opposite, it sits off, and you hold your finger on it to close the choke, motor starts then you let the choke off. Have it in a spot where its not proud of the outer housing. Not sure it you could get it anywhere near the control pannel.
Im assuming it gets itself up and revving Ok and only needs the choke for the initial start.

Interesting reading about the problems.
I have a chinese generator here but its a bigger one with a gravity fed tank. Missing the remote. Was missing the key too but i made one. Im wondering if i should get a remote, not so sure it would have much benifit.

Hi Bob, the thread you replied to is over 12 months old mate, I will close the topic.