I am finally giving up on these 2 stroke Victas because of the problems with the float needles. The failure and problem rate is too high, just causes too many issues. I will work my way through the ones I have here but I will not be chasing anymore, they have finally beaten me.
The rate with my 13 is nil. All original equipment Victa plastic needles. I think it's just an inherent design flaw with the whole set up that inevitably leads to problem carbys. I think getting them to be 100% problem free is chasing rainbows. You can only really reduce the incidence by the sounds of it. Well worth persevering for the end result of a top notch mower power plant.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
I never had a problem with the plastic needles leaking when paying $1 each for one at the local mower shop but I think the mowers Norm gets are little more worn out than the ones I've had.
I've had one Victa where someone had just replaced the plastic needle with a piece of alloy welding rod that had a point ground on the seat side and that worked fine.
The Victa carbies I've had didn't need the brass seat to be re-cut but there is a repair for them if the needle is still not shutting off correctly .
Might be worth trying if you know the needle is good.
Hi Norm, I did not know you were using new primer caps and new floats , I would not think you are having any flooding issues,unless the needles are too heavy for the float , If the needle is sticking closed ,I would try tying the bottom of the needle with some fuse wire to the float.
If there is not enough room for fuse wire at the bottom of the needle I would drill a small hole in the bottom centre of the needle and loctite the wire in then drill a small hole for the wire to go through the plastic float.
If I was having the problems you are having I would experiment with making some needles out of alloy welding rod.
Just a few ideas but it sounds like it's a frustrating problem getting the needle and seat to be reliable 100 percent of the time.
Yes Max, you can see why I am done with them, regardless if they work today, it is fifty fifty if they will work tomorrow or in a weeks time. I have tried making up a little clip to pull the needle down and that seemed to work for a while but then it started sticking down and flooding out the primer cap. I have tried making needles out of silver solder welding rods, I have fitted Briggs seats in the caps and turned down Briggs needles to fit, but both these ideas were as unreliable as the ones I am using now. They are a fantastic carby but the primer and needle design is just crap and I am now completely over them.
Hi Norm, You move more PTs than me, but I always ask them to call me if they don't work. I know of one lady that I sold a PT to.. It wouldn't start , and she had the tray bids , so just dumped it. It was a powerful mower...... I like to keep a mower for a while , months to see how it goes, and how reliable it is. Have a break from LM carbs and look at some line trimmers........ fishing.... pallet furniture. cheers speedy
........................Keep your blades sharp......................
Yep I can see Norm why trying to clip or tie the needle to the float would be a problem with the plastic Victa float.
I found that home made needle I removed from a Victa many years ago,it's not made out of alloy as I thought, it's steel, looks like it's made from ark welding rods, it's a little longer than the standard plastic Victa needle.
The plastic needle would not open by gravity alone but the steel needle opened every time I moved the float down so it had no problem opening just by gravity and without clipping the end of the needle to the float.
I will have to try this needle in a mower and see how reliable this steel needle is. I remember this needle working in a mower it's just that I never tested it over a long period of time but the steel needle may have been in the carby for years.
Hi Max, I can't believe the steel needle would seal up against the brass seat in the primer cap. I pulled the brass seats out of many of the primer caps, drilled down with a 3/16th drill and the pushed a Briggs viton seal in there for the Briggs needle to seal up against Yes Speedy I will have a Bex and a lie down, should do the trick.
Hi NormK I haven't worked on that many mowers mate only just a couple that I have here. The only thing I can mention is I don't know if it helps all that much but I think it's a good thing if using the standard red Victa needle to always turn the fuel tap off and let the engine run until it stops before putting it away. I don't sell mowers to customers so I don't know if you could possibly also tell them to always do this?
I have had a very good run for many years always doing this with my Victa Commando and when I drag it out of the shed even after 4 months or longer, I just put fresh fuel in and it eventually starts, sometimes it may take 3 or 4 pulls to start it after sitting so long. But once it starts it runs fine all day and I mow the lawns. Maybe I have been lucky I don't know. It just has all standard genuine Victa carby parts in it.
I have also put a standard red Victa needle in that red Victa Pace PT I repaired about 3 months ago. That's also been sitting for about 3 months now. The grass is starting to grow everywhere here now and once the weather starts to dry a bit I might take this out for a mow. I will see if it still runs ok after sitting so long. I do remember I also turned the fuel tap off on that one and let it idle until it stopped before I put it away.
Don't know mate I am just thinking maybe turning the fuel tap off and running the engine until it uses up the fuel in the carby to let the float drop a little bit and also it lets the needle rest and sit away from the seat may prevent it from sticking and then when you want to start it again it might work ok.
I know my green Victa FC usually runs ok after sitting for many months like this. I don't know about that other red Pace PT though. When I get around to starting it again I will see if it runs ok as it's been sitting for around 3 months now also. I just have a standard red Victa needle in it, but I have installed a genuine Victa primer cap and genuine Victa float and also a new genuine Victa jet. I don't know if there is much difference between the genuine and aftermarket carby parts.
Cheers!
Zip a dee doo dah, zip a dee ay, another trash picked Victa, hip hip Hooray!
Norm, I had a few idle moments this afternoon, and had a bit of a think about this.
1. maybe the regular engine oil you said you use in the mix is causing 'stickiness' of the needle in the seat - and this gets worse as the fuel evaporates. If the engine is shut off then the fuel tap turned, you have the fuel line full and the float bowl full as well - this could run down as the fuel evaporates and clog up around the needle.
I always shut the fuel off 20 seconds before putting them in the stop position. However, 2 months ago it was dark and all I did was stop my PT commando, take the fuel line off and drain the tank ((as per usual). Next week, it took 2 pulls to start instead of the 1 every other time - I have to put this down to leaving the float chamber full.
2. I was going to suggest drilling out the brass and putting in a vitron seat, but I see you tried that.
You have done so much good work with these LM's getting them to idle, to have throttle control and stop reliably, it would be a shame to have one of these other little things to stop such good work
Converse, I personally don't let mine completely run dry, but it clearly doesn't cause any problems if your Commando is any indication. What I don't like to see is when people turn the fuel tap off with the engine flat chat and then run it out of fuel. Backing it off to idle then running it out can't be that harmful. Regards Tyler
Converse, I personally don't let mine completely run dry, but it clearly doesn't cause any problems if your Commando is any indication. What I don't like to see is when people turn the fuel tap off with the engine flat chat and then run it out of fuel. Backing it off to idle then running it out can't be that harmful. Regards Tyler
Hi Tyler, No I always just let it idle at a slow tick over until the engine stops. Never at high revs, although there has been the odd time when I have ran the fuel tank completely dry with the engine surging then it came to a complete stop when the fuel ran out...lol Luckily the engine still runs great even after this has happened a couple of times over the years.
Cheers!
Zip a dee doo dah, zip a dee ay, another trash picked Victa, hip hip Hooray!
I have done the same thing several times Converse, going along and then revs a bit and carks it.
Also have left the fuel tap off after I have shut it down to go and empty the catcher.
My Standard 2 had the yellow needle in it - didn't have issues for a good while. Then I built the new shed, and suddenly the trip from shed to lawn went from going over a few bumps, to going smoothly straight onto it.
Took 5 goes one time, then the next it just flat out refused - that is why I was mowing in the dark with the PT commando haha. guess the crooked pavers were freeing the needle up
I don't think there should be any problem Norm with the brass seat and the steel needle,lots of carbies use these components ,remember all the old single barrel stromberg carbies for example.
I can take some measurements of the needle if you like Norm if you want to copy that steel Victa needle.
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, some of which has already been covered, and also as general info for anyone searching the forum in the future.
1. Use 2-stroke oil, not 4-stroke: -> 4-stroke could be stickier, causing the valve to gum up -> 4-stroke may separate more over time, exacerbating the issue -> 2-stroke has additional fuel stabilisers to keep the mix more stable for longer without separating -> 2-stroke has specific additives (detergents, etc) for 2-stroke engines to prevent build-ups and additional exhaust pollution
2. Use 98 octane fuel: -> 98 octane fuel, as well as 2-stroke mix, contains fuel stabiliser agents and detergents to keep the fuel stable for longer and can assist in the blending of fuel and 2-stroke mix -> 98 octane fuel is more stable, resulting in a more consistent burn in the combustion chamber -> The detergents in it alone, let alone when coupled with a premium 2-stroke mix, can help to clear out gummed up passages faster and more easily
3. Use premium 2-stroke oil: -> Premium 2-stroke oil contains additional stabiliser agents and detergents to assist further with lubrication and keeping the oil/fuel stable for longer
4. Do not let the mower run dry: -> This is specifically noted in the PowerTorque Owner's Manual -> While this occurring on occasion may not do any serious damage to the engine immediately, over time this can have dire consequences -> Turning off the fuel tap before cutting out the engine could cause suction on the line, pulling the needle up and into the seat with more force, having an adverse effect. Leave fuel in the fuel line above the needle
5. Even with premium 2-stroke oil, do not mix more than 25:1: -> 25:1 is more than enough to keep the engine running smoothly -> Using 25:1 with premium 2-stroke oil (As opposed to the recommended 50:1) will provide more than enough lubrication and will mix well with the fuel
6. Starting procedure (Victa): -> Ensure the spark plug is connected -> Turn the fuel tap on -> Move the throttle to the "RUN" position, then back to the "START" position -> COLD START: Press the primer bulb slowly 3 times, pausing between each press -> HOT START: Priming is only necessary if the mower fails to start on the first pull -> Pull the starter handle slowly until it engages, then quickly once engaged. Return the starter cord slowly until recoiled -> Run the engine in the "START" position for 10 seconds or until warm, then move the throttle to "RUN" -> Keep the throttle in the "RUN" position in all mowing conditions
7. Starting procedure (pau13z): -> Before turning on the fuel, top the tank up with some fresh 2-stroke mix -> After turning on the fuel, give the mower a bit of a shake/roll on the ground. This will help mix any fuel/oil in the tank that may have separated (Aided by the fuel you just added), and help to knock loose the needle if it may have stuck -> Press the primer bulb 3-8 times slowly, then move the throttle to and from the "STOP" and "RUN" positions several times, before settling back on the "START" position -> Only a gentle and not "super fast" pull of the starter cord should be required to kick over the engine
I've only ever used premium 2-stroke oil with 98 octane fuel. I currently have 5 working mowers in my garage, some of which haven't been started in over a year. With fresh 2-stroke and a bit of shake/rattle/roll, I almost always get a start within 1-2 pulls
FYI, the current carby available from Victa (Whole unit replacement) is really good. I've had carby's previously that look OK, replaced all of the parts, no leaks, nothing apparently wrong, however, the mower won't start. Replace the whole body, up and running immediately. In my experience, the needle has been the least of my worries
As for the Viton tipped needles, my thoughts are that while they should provide "the" superior seal, remember, this seal is to stop fuel entering the float chamber. If the needle is stuck open you'd know because the fuel would come out of the primer bulb as the float chamber fills up. If the seal is working TOO well, it could get stuck up in the seat, especially if a vacuum has formed between the fuel line and the needle. The hard plastic needle should be more than enough to stop the fuel coming in, but also the best to "pop" loose and allow fuel to come out.
Check my horrible drawing.... If the tip of the needle gets stuck in the seat because the soft rubber tip gets sucked in, it may not want to release. Just my thoughts, I'm sure you all deal with more mowers than I do, as I said, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents
Excellent post pau 13. I can imagine the rubbery tip on the viton needles could pose their own problems and be more prone to jamming. I thought 95 was enough but I will get 98 next time, especially after the point you made about stability over time. I ran a Ryobi 31cc 2 stroke powered bike on Shell Optimax when it first came out about 2000 and noticed the performance boost immediately.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Hey Norm, I have not gone through as many PTs as you, and probably not as much as the others here. But I've had steel needles, black needles, yellow needles and pink needles. They all seem to work fine.
My troubles all seem to be with governing. I don't know why, must be air leaks somewhere, even though I've replaced the usual seals. Going to buy two full replacement carbies and see where I end up.
Did I read correctly that you add sump oil to the fuel to make your mix? I echo the others here. Reckon that might be causing issues for you.
I don't collect mowers. I just require Multiple Mowing Solutions™.
Please do not give up Norm. We will never get another other engine to run a Super 24 like a Victa. They need a two stroke and what else is there? I know we have talked about those Suzuki clones at times but they are expensive, a bit small and they are known for carby issues as well.
I must admit that I have had the best results with old plastic needles although both my metal needles are OK at the moment. I think there is something in shaking the whole mower a bit before and after starting. I do that as a routine but its not the type of thing your customers will like to hear.
How are you anyway? I hope your operation went well and your are recovering well. Can you get down to your workshop yet? All will seem much better when you can.
Hi Norm , Here are the dimensions for the steel Victa needle, a rough drawing from the laptop touchpad.
The steel Victa needle is 3.1mm diameter ( ark welding rod is 3.25 mm) so it could be made from a nail. If need be you can file or grind a couple of flat sections on the side of the needle for more fuel flow.
The only bit I don't necessarily agree with is suction due to turning the tap off causing the needle to stick worse - there is a hole in the primer that will let air pressure out.
I use 98 with semi for full synthetic oil as well - the Victa's don't complain, and my starting procedure is identical to yours.
That being said, 98 shouldn't be a requirement for one of these to run - I have had very little success convincing others to use it. And I can guarantee a potential customer would balk at the requirement when a Briggs will run normally (which is to say quite averagely) on 91.
What they don't know is that most of there whipper snippers and leaf blowers are supposed to run 98 Ron as well (the manuals all say 91 r+m/2 - which is the american method)
Powerfit Semi synth oil is at bunnings for $10 a litre bottle - best price for semi-synth 2 stroke oil I can find. I used it when it was branded Ryobi and it seemed fine.
I guess i'll just also add my 2c worth here on premium 98 unleaded fuels and my experiences with it.
Many years ago I did try a mix of BP Ultimate 98 unleaded in the 2 stroke mix, I didn't think it made any difference at all in how the engine ran it seemed the same as running it on standard 91 unleaded. The only thing I do remember though was that my eyes seem to sting a bit and possibly my nose was stinging a bit from the gases emitted from burning the 98 in my lawnmower. I straight away went back to regular 91 which doesn't seem to irritate the eyes and airways so much. Well this was my experience running it in the 2 stroke mix. Because of this I always just stick to regular 91, this is also what Victa used to recommend to run the 2 strokes on.
Another thing is don't really believe all the hype about how stable or how much this premium 98 petrol will help to prevent rust in the fuel system etc. It may be better if it's left in a tank for maybe just a few months and constantly refreshed with fresh fuel. I once had this premium 98 unleaded in an older car with a steel tank thinking that it would better protect the steel tank and other lines on the vehicle from rusting away. The result was it completely rusted out the inside of the steel petrol tank! Wherever this premium 98 fuel was touching inside the tank it was rusted right out! The fuel was sitting in the tank for a very long time though.
Well anyway that's just my 2c worth on this premium 98 unleaded petrol. In the end I think the only advantage of this fuel is if you actually need the higher octane of 98 to prevent pinging or knocking on an older engine or on a performance engine. It may have slightly better additives for cleaning the injectors or whatever on a newer vehicle. But as I mentioned don't leave it in any tank for a long time as it will rust it out. I learnt this the hard way.
Cheers!
Zip a dee doo dah, zip a dee ay, another trash picked Victa, hip hip Hooray!
I mostly use BP 95 or 98 because I am reasonably certain there is no ethanol in it. I also use a fuel stabiliser and quality 2 stroke oil. I’ve had good success with metal and plastic needles. With this method I feel I’m doing all I can to keep fuel as fresh as possible so I can be confident my 3 victa machines and 8 year old ryobi whipper snipper will start easily with the same procedure every time.
