OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Other Walk-Behind Rotary Mowers Pope Rotary valve 2T

G'day guys thought some might find this old pope interesting, I'm giving it a clean up.. I have got it running 100% b4 I pulled it down and my god does it have some power!.. The old guy I got it off even said that old Pope has some power you can mow trees down with it! he's not wrong lol....I don't know much about it or even how old it is? there is a little on ODK about the rotary valve Pope but not much information out there...Few pics Cheers

You can see by the pics how the rotary valve works for the next charge of air fuel mix,the crank is hollow the end with the port in it the fresh intake mix of air/fuel comes out between the crank weights... very interesting old engine..

Cool,youll be about the first to ever restore one! That Wipac fly and coil are just what I need for my 35! Mine is a 161 to but with a baby coil,the points set is identical...gimme!
Actually this is gonna be another important Model for the archives Chris,Cant wait to see you work your magic! Good luck! And no blasphemous words when you wrap your knuckles on the height Adjusts....And no,Just because your now hanging out with the Pope,doesnt mean your going to heaven! Baaahaaaaa.

You may just be in luck Blue! I have a spare engine It's identical to this one apart from intake and exhaust they are on opposite sides will have a better look but yeah the Wipac ignition is yours if it will help you out..I can test it works on this engine as well...

Hello Chris125, Blue, and ODK members

Yeah, I've never seen a restored one.
I hold this model in high regard. The engines were a great design.

If it helps, I now have a full manual in the History Forums.
Just click HERE.



All very interesting.
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JACK.

Cool Chris,ilk send you a pm and see if we can get it to suit as it really looks like it might fit,even the fly looks shallow....

I had one of these once,(well it looked like it) the only pope I ever had,but someone put a mk 3 midget on it and the front apron was cut jagged and made to look like an evil set of Monster teeth. Really bizazare. So anyway I pulled of the Midget and gave the tank to another member and threw it to the scrappies. That was and will be my only every Pope! Lols

Now hurry up and build it! This will be you second unique build in a row...And by unique I mean restored example. So whats next hmmmm?

On pulling the 2nd engine down it's different and a lot older, The ignition is nothing like the Wipac on my engine..

Hi Chris,

Both ignition systems are covered in the Manual link in my prior post (above).
The earlier version was the FW1500Z.

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JACK.

No thats because its Rotomo...Please put that in my grab bag chris! See you had roto stuff and never new it....

So they fitted to pope as well...55-56 is roto,what age is this pope?

Ah ok I see it in the manual....so Chris has a 59 on model Jack? And his other engine is off a 57-58 first generation pope...wow talk about finding some rare parts!
Cool you scored that early engine to mate....Never seen an alloy base pope before,that must be a rare beasty.

Is the early engine identical chris?

Engine cleaned up well, now that the crappy cleaning is done the fun part assemble of the engine I've already made the gaskets I need..

Looking at it Blue I thourgh only the intake and exhaust on opposite sides was the only difference but after having a good look it's a totally different engine some parts might fit my engine but not many, will take some pics of it..

Yeah it's totally different, had a quick look in my parts and found a few more bits and pieces...

Yep, those are indeed rare. Here's what they look like [pics from 'The Old Machinery Magazine' forums]:




One is visible in the background, in the first pic here: https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=59272
A past thread on the Pope rotary valve models: https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=55231

Should have known it was Ians....:)

Seen a few of chris's Model but never this one...Almost looks like it should be electric with that cowl.

Ok so the display says Circa 1954...bit far out from 57? What made the owner make this assumption? Its old,but more modern than 54...

Anyways a very interesting Mower

Yeah chris,a few differences....Rotomo 1/2 Now Pope and for the life of me I cant remember the other mower this was fitted to..Series no is different think roto is 1595 but I cant see any difference. Maybe its a component value difference and the serial covers the whole unit not a base pt no..

keep that engine complete and tucked away I reakon...there coukd only be a handful left

That would have been a 'stab in the dark'. The source thread is HERE.

Info on the rotary valve Popes has long been very hard to find, and I'm glad to note that our esteemed Forum Historian has come up with some great info on these early models; see the link in CyberJack's post above.

Yes I read the Thread,Thats why I asked the question....My point was,3 years is a big difference and since it appears to have been restored,Id assumed the owner wouldnt have been so far out on the build date.....

Hi Blue and contributors here,

This is a good question mate.

The use of the word 'circa' is a bit of a laugh - in that it can cover a range
of thought from 'stab in the dark' (as Moderator Gadge has said)to an educated estimation.

Time and time again I have found myth and fact not make happy bed couples.
Perhaps, people would like to think their machines are older than what they are.

Pope did have a motor mower in 1954; but it wasn't a rotary.
The 320-01 was introduced in 1957.

The issue that animates my thought is this: why did Pope enter the rotary market with
such an advanced, futuristic design, only to scrap that look within a couple of seasons?

I have my thoughts, but that's all they are...

Agreed, Circa is used by antique dealers and collectors who have no idea of what year it was actually made,so they go with the "Its really old so it must be rare and priceless"....bleh

That is an interesting question....As you know, a lot of radical designs of this era were just to unusual for some,with many staying just ideas. Our willingness to embrace this probably cost them sales,as this is definately a big jump in design over archaic Pope hand mowers and reels...

Just with your Tempest thread...My fav mower oveall btw, was also radical and reminiscent of a 47 chev or Ek holden....Too radical? Poor Marketing? Or just the mighty Victa machine stealing all the limelight? Who knows....But seriously,I wouldnt have bought one as it looks like an igloo on wheels! Perhaps the Eskimo may have embraced it if they actually had lawns?

That old Pope looks strange to me but then I guess taste changes over time what's in one day is out the next, cost to produce it may have killed it off is my guess they had to find a cheaper way to compete.. Anyway got the engine about done is looking good

Looks great chris! That barrel looks solid,very similar to my 35s.

How was the bore and and ring gap? Can just see the lower ring and it still looks like its got a bit of meat...Not bad for 45+ years...Does it look oversized or original?

Cant wait to see this done, I think it will look a lot more appealing as a whole wgen its all done...Shame about the orange though. You gonna go original or change the shade...Rocket red or chev orange might be a good alternative....Even wattle delicious if you wanna red it up:)

Bore is about 54mm stroke is about 55mm all looks good and I not worry about ring gap as the rings looked good and I've had it running and it's very strong feels like twice the power of a Victa 125, but I put that down to no governor / massive crank weights and the blade disc is so heavy easy 2x the weight of an old Victa,once wound up sure would take some slowing down! lol.. It's up to the operator how many revs they feel it needs...Myself I was not game to hold it at full throttle for too long feels like an old Suzuki Pe175 engine bolted to a mower ..oh yeah going with chev orange its very close....

Not much of an update but it's kind of looking like a mower again..

That looks Awesome!!!!! The Finish is beautiful. This is gonna be a valuable resto for the Archives Chris!

There was/is an engine on ebay...but since yours is running I let the info pass.

Thanks Blue this old Pope has grown on me.. I wasn't sure if I liked the styling but I'm liking it more now it's looking kind of as it did way back when and from my working out I think this is what I'd call the 3rd generation Pope mower??. I will be keeping my eye out for anything Pope from now on....Few pics I'm getting there one pic is under the fuel tank and the original orange paint, also there is a lot to be said for remote air filters the piston and bore are in great shape even though the so called filter is just some mesh! lol....Cheers

SHIIIINYYYY....I love shiny!

Maybe you should buy that engine on Thievebay?
Yeah from what Jack has said, it appears to be Third generation.

Im sure your other engine sits on a similar if not the same base as this one. And then there is that hideous looking First Model....I dont think that would ever grow on me!

Looks Near flawless Mate....And like I said previously, it will be far more appealing once its restored...And correct me if im wrong, but Im thinking this is the first of this model ever to undergo a full Resto...

Hi Chris125 and ODK members,

I don't know if your a 'smoke and mirrors' man or what...
It's rare to find this level of talent in re-producing the 'spirit' of a machine.

That Pope logo is a mirror of the original!
The paint is as alive as the original Pope Persimmon!
Look at how you have solved the problem of the missing height adjustment covers!

As I have said before, your talent in industrial photography is also exceptional. I mean (for example):



Great work Chris and one for the ODK record of these great lawnmowers.
I hope more folk start collecting them before their disappearance.

All very inspirational.
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JACK.

Thanks mate as far as I can tell the 2nd generation base has a hole for the muffler and the height adjusters are slightly different, apart from that they seem to share the same base..

Thanks Jack I find I'm getting an eye for what looks right but I still have a long way to go but I'm getting better at restoring things,It sure did not happen overnight so many tricks too it all and I try to keep cost low the Pope has cost me about 50 bucks so far...oh yeah I restore a mower to be a working mower just add fuel and mow as they where made to do...