Hi everyone! I have recently been working on a project involving Simplex engines. I would like to get as many Simplex engine codes as possible and try to find any similarities from them. I know that we will not be able to confirm that what we find is accurate but I think we might be able to learn more from these codes.
So far I only have 4 codes, pretty pitiful... but we have to start somewhere. So far these are the codes I have from the not so Simple Simplex:
Stationary Simplex engine (similar to those on mowers but crank is difference, pulley difference, barrel and head one piece instead of 2) - Upper case is R6 - Lower case is 698
Buz-A-Cut Mower - Upper case is VM - Lower case is 668 This is were it gets strange...
Pace 1S85 mower - Upper case says nothing... - Lower case is V8312
Rover Major (this is where it gets more normal) - Upper case is VB - Lower case is 2318
I am guessing the Buz-A-Cut and stationary engine are from early-mid 1956 which explains the lower numbers, and the Rover Major is late 1957, which is why the engine number jumps up to the 2000s. What I don't understand is why the Pace is so much different, why is it in the 8000s and why is there a V infront of the number? and why is there nothing on the upper crankcase? I would love to see more Pace mowers with Simplex engines to see if they are the same.
If you have a Simplex engine I would love to know the engine numbers and if possible a picture of the mower or engine. Hopefully I will be able to find some sort of pattern.
Thanks everyone! Hopefully we can learn some more about these engines.
I have downloaded the manual, hopefully it will help. I have seen a few Simplex engines online that have tags on them, which say what brand made them, I forgot what one said but it was made by a place that makes toilets.
Might be some traps there; there were a few companies that sold stationary engines with 'Simplex' in the name. 'Baltic Simplex' is fairly common, sold by the Baltic Simplex Machinery Co. Many [maybe all] of their engines were rebrands from local manufacturers, e.g. Ronaldson Tippett and Rosebery/Buzacott.
Hardman & Hall became 'Gearco Engineering' at some point, and still manufacture and support the Simplex marine engine line. They are now located in Seven Hills, NSW. See HERE .
Cheers, Gadge
"ODK Mods can explain it to you, but they can't understand it for you..."
"Crazy can be medicated, ignorance can be educated - but there is no cure for stupid..."
I am just looking at the Simplex 85cc engine that they use on mowers like the Rover, Pace and Minter. Like the one in the link above.
I have just been given a code to a Minter lawn mower, I think it was V8584, similar to the Pace, but I need him to tell me to make sure, it could be V8 584 similar to the stationary 85cc I got recently.
Yep, Gadge is quite right in the researching of the name 'Simplex'. It was used on American and British machinery. For example, I have a J.P. Simplex (in pieces).
I note that the manual refers to the 85cc as both a Mark 3 and an 'LM' engine. I guess 'LM' probably stands for 'lawn mower'. The 'V' might simply refer to a vertical shaft configuration.
Perhaps Gearco might know - or refer you to - someone in the know. It's worth a try...
I have seen the J.P. Simplex mowers around the place, Buzacotts sold them.
I think you might be on the money with 'V' for Vertical, all the Simplex's I have seen for Lawn mowers have started with the V, just 2 were VM or VB on upper case and numbers on lower, and the others were V then a number straight after, all on the lower case. Its also interesting that both the V---- engines were in the 8000s
The one that was positioned horizontally had "R" instead of V, the crank was the same as the "Model 2" but the barrel was one piece alloy or aluminium.
I might have to try to make contact with Gearco soon to try and find it, hopefully I don't end up speaking to a robot...
We just got another Pace 1S85 today, the code was upper VM lower 212, completely different to the other one. It is VM like the one on the Buz-A-Cut, only 456 numbers apart. Time to see if there is any diference between the one on the Rover and the Pace/Buz-A-Cut.
Sounds about right, the Rover would have to be 1957 wouldn't it?
Hopefully more members will send in there codes for us Jack.
Its a great name! I really did like the sound of it when I first heard about them. Hopefully these codes will be on the simple side and not the complex.
So VM is most likely 1956 (still got to confirm with more numbers) Which would made the Buz-a-cut 1956, which is what I expected. The rest is a little strange, but we will work it out.
I got another number today, a Minter, V9306. Ads from 1955 show a Minter with a Simplex, which means that the Simplex was being made in 1955. I strongly doubt the lower V---- would be 1955, it seams to early, but I will keep open minded until I have more numbers.
My internet is out after yetsurdays storm so my posts and responses to messages will be slow, sorry everyone
Many thanks. It may take some time to reap rewards from this info. I feel what these alpha-numerics show is that ... there is some sort of system going on!
Hopefully, more simplex than complex. ---------------------- Jack
The Cadet does need recording as an early Rover. It is the younger sister or brother to the Rover Major.
For an unexplained reason, Australia experimented with the off-set wheel design for rotaries in about 1957-58. The market rejected it. Perhaps that is the reason ... experiment / reject.
All very out-of-square. ---------------------------- Jack
Hi everyone, its been a while since I have posted due to school, but I am ready to come back and contribute a bit! I have just been given a bunch of new engine number for the record, and with a but of sorting I am starting to see some patterns!
Letter and number code, on both crank cases, letters on top, numbers on bottom.
VM / 212 1956 Pace (orange engine)
VM / 340 Green Rover (early 60s base, red engine, possibly wrong engine)
VM / 668 Buz-a-cut
VB / 1441 Rover Major (red engine)
VB / 1501 Rover 18 (orange engine)
VB / 2121 Rover 18 with "powered by Simplex" cast into base. (Red engine)
VB / 2318 1957 Rover Major (orange engine) Letter number code, with letters and numbers on top, and just numbers on bottom.
Just a quick update for the list. I have been given one more number, and I am hoping to get a few more from the same member soon. This is an engine on its own but I am fairly sure this is Rover, has it has the typical Rover fuel tank and red colour. Hopefully the picture works [img]https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...d13a0c0c8ca62509841c04fe&oe=5A41D5EE[/img]
Letter and number code, on both crank cases, letters on top, numbers on bottom.
VM / 212 1956 Pace (orange engine cowl)
VM / 340 Green Rover (early 60s base, red engine cowl, possibly wrong engine)
VM / 668 Buz-a-cut (Entire engine is blue)
VB / 1441 Rover Major (red engine cowl)
VB / 1501 Rover 18 (orange engine cowl)
VB / 2121 Rover 18 with "powered by Simplex" cast into base. (Red engine cowl)
VB /2141 engine with Rover style tank (Base is missing) (orange engine cowl)
VB / 2318 1957 Rover Major (orange engine cowl)
Letter number code, with letters and numbers on top, and just numbers on bottom.
R6 / 698 Stationary engine (no engine cowl) V-code - only on lower crank case
got given the engine numbers to a Malvern mower today, nice rare mower for the record. Interesting to see that it was a VC, most rare ones have been VM so far, or most Rovers are VB. Letter and number code, on both crank cases, letters on top, numbers on bottom.
VM / 212 1956 Pace (orange engine cowl)
VM / 340 Green Rover (early 60s base, red engine cowl, possibly wrong engine)
VM / 668 Buz-a-cut (Entire engine is blue)
VB / 1441 Rover Major (red engine cowl)
VB / 1501 Rover 18 (orange engine cowl)
VB / 2121 Rover 18 with "powered by Simplex" cast into base. (Red engine cowl)
VB /2141 engine with Rover style tank (Base is missing) (orange engine cowl)
VB / 2318 1957 Rover Major (orange engine cowl)
VC / 2426 Malvern 18" (later cowl with fuel tank inside) Letter number code, with letters and numbers on top, and just numbers on bottom.
R6 / 698 Stationary engine (no engine cowl)
V-code - only on lower crank case
V8584 Minter (yellow engine cowl)
V3922 Buzacott stationary (entire engine is blue)
V3963 Buzacott stationary (entire engine is blue)
V8312 1956-57 Pace (red engine cowl)
V8584 Minter (yellow engine cowl)
V9306 Minter (yellow engine cowl)
V9640 Rover Cadet
Last edited by Kye Turnbull; 09/11/1706:25 PM. Reason: extra info
Hi Kye Fantastic! Many thanks for your extensive work in recording the little Simplex, an Australian-made engine used on many OZ lawnmowers.
ODK members should appreciate your effort in making sense of these old engines - where little factory records survive.
There is certainly a pattern - of sorts. This does not mean that the alpha-numeric stampings will reveal more; beyond smaller numbers meaning an earlier production engine date.
Much may be internal factory logic and only understood via Hardman & Hall documents (that we have not found).
Speculation is easy.
Your work reminds me of the classic story of persistence and research: that of Henry Ellis and his efforts to identify info. in the great British J&P lawnmowers. His story, published in three editions of the Old Lawnmower Club'sGrassbox magazine remains an inspiration to me.
Henry gathered heaps of serial markings before he made a breakthrough. I know you have read this story - taken from Grassbox 44, 48 and 50. I reproduce these articles below - as they are a great read ... and may be of interest to members.
We will never know until we collect more. This engine was the later type, with a cowl similar to a Pope, I know these engines were also on later Minters.
Henry's story is a great one when it comes to mower research, and it would be awesome to see something similar happen with my Simplex research, the hardest part is finding numbers.
Hi Paul and Kye I feel Kye's approach is the right one - the data might reveal some theory.
I guess that 'V' meant 'vertical'... I note 'VB' could possibly mean 'Vertical Brisbane' - given that Rover have exclusive use of VB. That's pretty wild speculation there.
Let's see what new data comes in.
Many thanks to Kye, and all contributors. Only more serious research - or a breakthrough - will help here.
Thanks Paul!! Sorry I haven't updated recently, I have been busy. I will update now.
You could be right Jack, we will probably never know though. Would be great to find a list of companies that made the Simplex. I know Buzacott made them under license.
Also notice the holes on Paul's cowl, looks like it had a Rover tank at one point!
