OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Engines Pace Engines

I have seen in various places that Pace started to design there own engine just before the brand was bought by Victa, but what do we know about this engine? I know nothing about it and i am writing a series about Pace on my History page Kye's Mowers , so any info is wanted! I know nothing so anything you can tell me is awesome!

Hi Kye
The problem with 'various places' is that, invariably, the story originates from
one source, and is then subsequently repeated by another, and another ...

The goal here should be to locate a reliable, primary source.
Otherwise, the danger is the perpetuation of a myth.

I wish it were true, but I have no reliable evidence.
Please let me know if you find the source of the story.

Quick smart; that's Pace.
-----------------------------
Jack

Makes sense Jack

I have been researching the Pace Engine.

Perhaps the myth about it came from the Pace 125 C.C. version of the Victa 125 C.C. engine.

I was recently talking to someone who's grandfather worked at a Victa work shop, when I asked him what he knew about Pace engines he told be that Pace designed them to be like a Victa 125 C.C. engine but with the carby and exhaust on different sides.

The guide to pre-1964 Pace models that is shown on Vintagemowers.net calls Victa engines "Pace 125 c.c. engines instead of Victa engines.



Both of these match up to the Victa/Pace engines of the late 1950s. The "Pace 125 C.C. engine" had the carby and exhaust on the opposite side of the Victa 125 C.C. engine. This would match what I have been told by relatives of Victa shop workers.




I am still trying to find information about the "Pace 125 C.C. engine" including engine numbers and pictures. I have not seen the front of the engine yet and I would like to see if it still has Victa cast into the crankcase. Perhaps Victa was trying to hide that they owned Pace.

Thanks For Reading!
Kye.

G'day Kye

I think you have answered your own questioning.
The Pace 125cc engine is really a myth [unless new evidence turns up].

Pace never had the resources to develop their own engine [maybe].
Because Victa's takeover of Pace in 1959 was secretive (as you suggest),
the Pace 125 engine was born. I guess this is where the myth started...

It would not have had 'Victa' on the crankcase because the Pace
engine was - perhaps more correctly' a 'Tiger' - or if you like,
one of the Victa Industrial engines. These did not carry
the 'Victa' brand. Quite silly really.

Note the carby side on the MK3 Industrial ...
See: https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=52936#Post52936

Here is a close-up of the crankcase:-


I have no idea whether Victa used a different numbering system
for Pace in particular, or for the industrial engines in general.

What is of particular interest to me is that Victa were selling
their engines to other manufacturers earlier than previously thought.
[I mean way before the Pace takeover.]

In any case, what you have proposed here is an explanation
for the myth of the Pace engine. Very Commendable!

------------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack!

I thought it might not say Victa on the front for the exact same reason you just presented, I knew that H.G. Palmers were un-marked and I thought perhaps Pace engines would be the same.
I never realized that Tiger engines carbies and exhausts were switched around, thanks for that info Jack!

My search for engine numbers has been slow, I have found several people with Pace mowers but only one has given me the codes, CAF 3704 you may be able to find more info from that then me Jack.

I have also been wondering whether Victa may have been using Pace as there back up plan? If Victa's change to skirted bases didn't work, they could have kept on making mowers under the Pace name. luckily This didn't happen and the Four-Star and Sheerline were successful, then after that Victa started to quietly shut Pace down (I don't know when Pace shut down. people tell me 1965 but I have seen quides saying there were around in 1977, I have also seen things about selling it to Sunbeam). That way the Richardson's would not be able to fail in the lawn mower industry no matter what happened.

Thanks For Reading!
Kye.

That appears to me to be an intelligent and provocative question...

My personal view is that the newly formed Victa Consolidated Ltd. were
experiencing unprecedented success in their products. My view is that the
Model 5 Victa changed everything for the company. Extremely high profits
enabled Victa to make investments that both diversified the company and
consolidated its commitment to being Number One for the 1960s.

I do not feel Pace was Plan B at all - but an example of the strive for
continued market dominance. The 'Pace' name could be easily sacrificed or
suppressed to that end. This is what happened in 1965 - but the Pace name lived
on (as you know), and as one would expect. The Pace brand had value,
even if it became just another product name made by Victa.

I would like to say something potentially controversial now.
I have never been convinced that Victa's secret buying of Pace was
a shrewd commercial move by Mervyn Richardson at all. Merv was not
a soothsayer who could foresee how the 1960s would be played out.

In hindsight, I see that the biggest players in the 1960s were only
just starting rotary mower production at the time of the Pace purchase.
Rover, Turner, Pope, Supa-Swift, Scott Bonnar - all entered the rotary
market late in the 1950s. The buyout, if intended to corner the
future market, naturally failed to foresee the emerging big players.

My second point is this:
Regardless of the merits of the Pace buyout, Victa was diversifying.
In the early 1960s, Victa's interests expanded into areas I still can not
fathom. I mean, the famous 'Red Phones' (highly profitable); Victa Homes
- Who has heard of them? - (highly profitable); and the grand folly of
the Victa aircraft (highly un-profitable).

Some good evidence suggests that, to Merv's credit,
Pace was given autonomy in the six or so years it survived.
This was always a good strategy. It was a shame the day Pace
died ... in my view.

Jack

Thanks Jack, it never hit me that most of the big players started after Pace! And what you have said makes sense and clears up an idea that I had.
I find it a shame that Pace was bought, it would have been great to see what Pace would have become. By 1958 Pace had a decent mower, it had all the features of the Model 5 Victa and more, besides a slightly less powerful engine (unlike the 1957 Pace Automatic which to me seams like a failure). It would have been great to see how Pace would have expanded from there.

G'day Folks,

Not sure I consider the aircraft division a 'folly'. The Millicer design was fantastic and the airtourer a force to be reckoned with.

The reason why the aircraft division was unprofitable is believed to be because the major Yankee players (Cessna and Piper) were dumping machines on the Australian market in an effort to cripple the local player who fought for, and failed to achieve tariff protection. Also, the development costs for an aircraft are huge, and it takes a considerable amount of time in the marketplace to absorb these costs. Victa just wasn't out there fop long enough to do this.
Although I can't confirm it, I've heard said that one of these yank players felt sufficiently threatened by this aircraft they got hold of one and dismantled and examined it in detail to see what they were up against.

The merit of the machine and design and ultimately Merv's faith in it is born out in that the CT4, which is a variant of the 4-seat Aircruiser that Victa was developing when the aviation division was closed went on to be produced for a long time by the Kiwis (who bought the aviation division.

This is a very typical story in Australian manufacturing history.

I also wonder just how much Merv's personal faith in, and financial backing of the aviation division had a part to play in the sad story of his falling out with his family and accountants that lead to him basically walking away with nothing.

Hi Kye

Clearly Pace was becoming a threat to Victa.
Most importantly, they (Pace) say that a skirted base was the future.
The most successful lawnmower maker of the 1950s - Victa - had to succumb
to the press reports on safety. The 'toecutter', though not dead, would
no longer be the definition of a domestic lawnmower.

I might add this: Victa's taking over of Pace destroyed Villier's
largest lawnmower engine client - Pace. It is possible that the strategy
included the expansion of Victa's industrial engines (as part of the plan).
Merv didn't see the impact of the 4-stroke ... but he took notice wisely and quickly.

Great thoughts mate.
--------------------------
Jack

G'day prd
I certainly am not disputing the points you have made.
I think you are quite right - 'folly' is not the right descriptor at all.

I guess the 'folly' is a hindsight thing, in the way (again) that un-foreseen
events (American interests) and government (lack of protection and financial backing)
played their hands. It was a folly in hindsight; not its inception. The Victa
Airtourer failed because of governmental failure to support innovation. I hope
that is a fair point on the subject (see attachment).

In terms of dreaming ... it's a great story isn't it? Perhaps analogous to the
American Tucker:

Your last comment is profoundly sad in scope. I hope, some day, we will be
better informed about those years, and Mervyn's last years.

-----------------------
Jack

Jack I have been waiting for the Tucker to get a mention here, a vehicle probably 25 years ahead of its time and destroyed by the big car manufacturers of the time because they could not produce a vehicle to the standards the Tucker was. I think there is still 48 of the 50 originally built still in existence
The movie claimed after they broke him that he went on to design a small fridge so that people would be able to keep food fresh in the home. I have always wondered if the Tuckerbox freezer manufactured in the seventies was in recognition of this

Morning Jack,

Looks like we're both on the same page after all.

Perhaps Malleys was simply capturing the old aussie slang word Norm?

Yep, Norm, the Tucker was an amazing car. Here are two good sites
http://theoldmotor.com/
http://petrolicious.com/the-tucker-48-is-the-closest-thing-to-a-road-going-aircraft

Cheers
----------------
Jack