OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Other Walk-Behind Rotary Mowers Pope's First 2-stroke Rotary Mower - the 320-01

did anyone else here see (or buy) the mowers on ebay at Toowoomba a few weeks ago? there was one of these and a bunch of other mowers

Hello Pope

A warm welcome to these forums.
I am speechless...

This is a showroom restoration of the first Pope Rotary.
I see that you have a framed, original newsprint advertisement too.

This machine is surrounded in mystery, I guess like yourself ...
This model lasted for one season and then seems to have been wiped
from Pope records.

The second model - the 320-02 - has little resemblance to this model.
I have found but one clue about the 320-1:



The only thing missing here is ... your story about this.
What is its provenance? Why did you restore it to this high standard?

Thank you for sharing it with us, and contributing the
most important photo record of the enigmatic 320-01.


I have written a History Record, revealing the many patents that
went into the design.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=60056

Hi Kye,

Mate, if you saw one of these, see if you can track it down.
Highly rare and highly collectible.

Cheers
------------------
Jack

I know Cyber, i lost the bid by only $3! i hope a member got it! there was a later model pope with a catcher and a Southern cross, both in very good nick! then there was a bunch of reel mowers, mostly didn't have handle bars though there was 3 that were all there and in a good condition. Would have been great for the $155 that they went for!

Hi there :grin I purchased this mower 10 years ago for $40 from a trash and treasure market.I had been working on mowers for 25 years at the time,and thought I pretty much had seen them all,until this one caught my eye.It was complete,but painted a disgusting pale blue by brush.Even as I pushed it through the car park,people were pointing at it .i could even lip read there lips saying "look at that lawnmower".I took it home and feverishly cleaned out carby ,added fuel,wound on rope,and It fired into life and ran strong.I started it a few more times then decided I had something quite special.I totally stripped it down for full showroom rebuild.under blue paint, was original paint scheme,but I rubbed back by hand to bare alloy.mower stayed pulled down for 9years ,as I had some changes in circumstances.however 2015 was the year to restore it.Engine was freshened up with new rings,hone,crank seals.while every single mm of chassis and hardware came under meticulous scrutiny.I could not tell you how many hours I put into this.it was a LOT! But worth the result. I went to this much trouble as I love the look of it,it is rare,and will be showing it off at vintage events.I you are going to go to the trouble of doing up something,do the best you possibly can.

that's awesome! my plan was to get the pope of ebay and show it of at car shows next to my mates 1957 chev, guess i will have to wait until next time!

Yes I mssgd the guy and said if it didn't sell ,I would buy that particular one for $100 + I would pay freight. Never mind,one will do me

Hello Pope, Kye and Members

Pope, that's a great story of the collector's eye for something different.
I remember when I was about ten, seeing one under a beach-side house.
I didn't know what it was, but I liked that Art-Deco, streamliner look.

They would have been expensive to build too - with rotary valve engine,
exhaust through deck, and complex castings. Beautiful.

I also note the rope guide. This was subject to a patent that I have not
found. It's a simple idea for a vertical pull start though: wrap the
lanyard around the pulley, through the guide, and pull upwards, whilst
having foot on base template. Also note the chute guard ... this had
safety features before Victa even recognised that word.

Kye, you must have a good collector's eye too. There are plenty of '57 Chevs,
far less Pope 320-01s. But there must be some still out there.

Pope, your post now is linked from the History Record for this model.

Thanks for sharing it with us.
------------------------------------
Jack

Thanks cyberjack.glad to be a part of showing this mower to those who are wanting to see one like new, .They would have been expensive,as the very thick alloy base and cowl are heavy.infact,when I got it,all four wheels were square from sitting with weight of mower on them lol

Thanks cyberjack.glad to be a part of showing this mower to those who are wanting to see one like new, .They would have been expensive,as the very thick alloy base and cowl are heavy.infact,when I got it,all four wheels were square from sitting with weight of mower on them lol

Hello Pope

Do you have a story to tell about the ad?
Was it luck that you found an original newspaper clipping?

Also, would it be possible to have a photo of the RH side,
similar to the LH side one above? Also one of underneath,
as the bladeholder was an advanced design for the day.

Cheers
-----------------
Jack

theres heaps of 57 chevs, 3 on my friends have them ! i was hoping my gardener was a 57, 58 is good enough haha. pope all your missing is this pope fuel can
love your username btw

Well spotted Kye

That's the right colour too!
Pope used the buttercup colour for their first power mower,
and then for the 320-01. When the 320-02 was released, the
buttercup colour was dropped in favour of persimmon, for both
their 2-strokes and the new 4-strokes. I like both colours.




Oh yeah, '57 Chevs, common as... Pick a random phone number,
phone, and they're sure to have one, or know someone who has one.
Gardener mowers are the rare beasts that once roamed the earth.
I'm sure we will find who made your mower - one day.

Yes, I agree Kye, Pope is a good user name.
With a restoration that good, I feel I should be addressing
Pope as His Holiness.

Petrol Can? Vatican.
-----------------------------
Jack

thanks cyber, now my family just needs a 57 chev haha.

Hahaha. Bless you cyber and kye lol. The framed newspaper article was pure luck.i was talking to John from vintage mowers about my pope eight years ago.The next morning he mssgd me ,stating he had seen this original article just listed on eBay.needless to say,I snapped it up as a buy it now for $12

Hello Pope

Thank you for the blessing

That's a great story. It's amazing how things turn up by coincidence.
It has happened to me time and time again. It is a nice complementary
piece to the mower.

Cheers
----------------------
Jack

Ok so here is a question, the price 57gns would that be guineas? I can't remember how it was spelt but wasn't a guinea 21 shillings or something like that?. What I do remember was that there was 20 shillings to a pound and 10 pound brought a lot of Poms to Australia

Hello Norm

'Guineas' is correct and the conversion is what I have been told.
One guinea = one pound, one shilling.

In 1957 the Victa was selling for the magic price of �49/18/0.
So 60 quid for a Pope meant the Pope was significantly more expensive.

As I understand it, some prices were expressed in guineas as 'snob value',
signifying a superior products for those with class consciousness.

One of the great things about decimal currency was not just that it
was easier - and logical - but it didn't have the historical baggage
of a silly class system embedded in it.

[video][/video]

Hi Jack 50 quid to 60 quid, that was a massive difference, I'm surprised they sold any. I can't remember what the basic wage was back in 1957 but it was probably 10/12 quid a week gross so an extra 10 quid would take many weeks of savings. I remember my parents buying their Victa mower in 1962 and it was a big deal, first thing they had ever bought on HP

Thank you Norm! They Must have been a rich persons mower

Hi Pope, Norm & Kye

Yes Norm, and that may be new information to some younger members.
In the day, the lawnmower was a serious purchase. There was a lot of pressure
to consume the new post-war consumer products: fridges, washers, mowers.
I know that things like electric shavers (Ronson, Philips, Sunbeam) and handyman
drill kits (KBC, Black & Decker)were all the rage in the fifties and sixties.

For younger members, HP was 'Hire Purchase'. Many lawnmower stores, for example,
would have in-store hire purchase schemes whereby after an initial deposit,
owners would repay in weekly installments. My folks bought most stuff on HP
as well. How else could you keep up with the Jones' - I mean, with their
fancy new Kelvinator or Pope fridge, their fancy Turner or Pope washer,
their new Victa Special... Holden in the driveway ...

Here's something interesting. Victa factory advertisements always appeared
in pounds (not guineas), until ... the Victa Automatic arrived. After that,
most Victa advertising expressed prices in guineas - until 14 February, 1966.
As a side-note, Victa Accounts changed their pricing a week and a half earlier,
on 1 February, 1966.

For the record:
Victa's recommended price for the Automatic? 56 guineas.
The Pope 320-01 was dearer than an Automatic!

The rest is history.
---------------------------
Jack

thanks for that Cyber, needed that info

Sorry, I didn't want to remind you of the Pope that got away.
I can't get that jingle out of my head ... from the video.

Whenever I mention the changeover to decimal currency, more mature
folk start singing the jingle I haven't slept for days.

Cheers
-------------
Jack

i don't mind that i lost it, i have no room anyway. I'm only 14 anyway so i have no idea how the old currency works haha

Hi Jack, just on the bit about the HP and my parents, I remember my mum discussing this HP agreement with the bank manager, being in a small country town you discussed all sorts of things with the bank manager.Mum said to him that she would not be buying anything else on HP. Bank manager was horrified saying that if everybody took that attitude this country would never be able to grow. I thought it was quite a statement back then and here we are 50 years later with most of the population up to their armpits in debt

Hi Norm

I love those stories.
It shows the generation change in thinking about debt.
I guess it also shows the special relationship bank managers had in
rural communities. I think your mum's bank manager was an armchair
economist - part of the 'new bread'.

Kye, the understanding of pricing in old currency is educational
for you then. Victa's pricing of �49/18/- meant 49 pound, 18 shillings,
no pence. So, almost fifty quid (pound).

Pricing is important in understanding vintage lawnmowers.
The video shows how complicated the old currency really was.

----------------
Jack

Firstly, thank you Jack for your historical research. Always interesting.

Not sure that you said the 500-02 mower engine in question, and following series, were made at the Morley Park (now Morley) factory in Perth. This continued to 1964, when engine production was moved to Dudley Park.

Were mower chassis every made in WA? A 1964 newspaper article relating to the closure of the WA factory, says they made �sealed units for refrigerators and engines for motor mowers�.

Eric

Hi Eric

That's all good, new information to me!

It makes sense to me that engine production would be centralized,
and lawnmower assembly would be centralized, but at different plants.
It makes no sense to duplicate processes that could be better effected
by economies of scale at a single plant.

So, great new information there, Eric.

-------------------------
Jack

eBay pics of the one that got away, can't seem to add them ? Here is the link

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-MOWERS-southern-cross-/111853345825

May be Jack could add them from his end of things before the auction disappears :-). It's my kind of mower, very "Jetson"