OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Engines VILLIERS MK 12/2 engine

G'day guy's..
Thought I'd share the restore of my old 1964 Australian made mark 12/2 Villiers.

With the little I know about villiers I'm lead to believe the mk 12/2 is 120cc and rated at 1.5hp?
Looking through my pile of engines I actually have a mk 10 and an old unknown as yet (still researching that one) villiers engines..

Hello Chris

I'm glad someone is restoring these old Ballarat engines.
Yep, my documents show 120cc but horsepower would vary.
They made the standard and a high speed version - h.p.: 1.5 to 2 h.p.
That is good, honest horsepower.

We look forward to updates.
--------------------------------------------
JACK

p.s. that last photo presents a nice menagerie. Brilliant!

Link below is to a PDF file, Mk10 & Mk12 Operations/parts manual, free and clean to download.

http://www.winget.co.uk/document/villiers%20mk10%20and%2012%20ops%20manual%20july%201957.pdf

They are a great little engine and start easily, yours has the later ignition system. Enjoy

Thanks for the Operations/parts manual paul_c..
Yes I've been enjoying tinkering with this old engine very well made and made to last,and different to anything I've worked on before.. I'm definitely a fan of old Villiers now ..

Bloody Stunning finish as always Chris!

Loving all these early engines popping up lately.

Make sure you throw up a few more progress Images and tech info if you have time Mate...:)

Hi Chris,

From the look of things the engine will be better than new, are you fitting a new ring set ? If so where did you source them from. My Villiers Mk C12A is a bit smoky and could do with a set.

It must of had new rings paul-c as they are like new so no new rings, I'm not sure where you would get a set..

The engine on a hole is in great shape, a bit of an update getting there few pics...

Am getting there with the mk 12 ,as you can see in the last pic from what I can tell it's the wrong head gasket off a smaller cc engine I'd say? either way I don't like the way in hangs over into the bore am working on a fix..
Also had time to look at the two more engines I have a mk10 and a old two stroke Villiers. I have boxes of carbs and mufflers just have to find the right ones

Love the Mk10 Chris...

Possibly another original Pace engine and cowl on the mocked up industrial MK3 mate...

Whats the Serial no? Should be X coded, although the cast inlet might prove it an earlier engine...

More good scores Chris

A man of your skill could easily work out the gasket dilemma

Hello Chris125, Paul_c and HT6

These are fantastic photos for the record.
Is it possible that head gasket is for a MK10?

Also, could you tell me the numbers off the engine?
(I can't read the first few numbers in first photo).

Thanks to Paul for the Manual link.

p.s. I love the texture and composition of this photo:


Thanks for the update.
------------------------------
JACK

Hi Everyone, head gasket doesn't look right at all. Try Rustic Spares or Rally Badges for one and what is your cleaning method as those parts are spotless.

Thanks Mal, I will get a pic of the Serial number on the two stroke.

Hi Jack here are some pics of engine number I think it's DM2699 hard to get a good pic at the time to much light, spark plug spanner and numbers on flywheel.
And yes I was thinking the same thing head gasket might be for a MK10?

Hi Chris

That's great for the record!!!
They sure know how to stamp a motor

How about the first series of numbers on the Maker's Plate.
The reason I ask is because there is a list of manufacturers
that used Ballarat engines. It may be we can match it to a
specific OEM, based on the 'X' number.

Cheers
-----------------------
JACK

Thank's for that paul_c I will have a look at Rustic Spares and Rally Badges..
I should be right modding the old gasket the copper is very soft I'm halfway through pulling it back trimming to size then folding the lip back over,slow and steady it's not a 5min job but its working..
My cleaning method I have many I've picked up over the year's it's just a matter of trying new ways and working out what works best for the given situation, patience is high up there and a clear goal as to what the end result is your aiming for. I'm no expert I just enjoy tinkering on engines its good down time after a hard days work..

Oh yeah I forgot about the maker's plate here a go Jack
On a side note this engine might have come off a cement mixer? as I've cleaned a lot of cement off it cowling was covered in it..

Hey Chris,

584X is a Std Spec (OTS) Ballarat engine, not originally listed for use by any OEM.

This engine would have been used for all sorts of machinery, especially pumps.

Any time on the MK3 serial mate, just curious if its Pace, Villager...or just a STD.

Hello HT6, Chris and Contributors

Mal, I'm in the conversation too.
This is great information.

Of course, Standard spec. engines were supplied to many small OEMs
that would not show up in major account documents.

Could you please tell us what 'OTS' stands for?
Could you share with us the docs you have that state 584X is a STD Spec?
Mate, Anything for the record adds to the story we don't have.

All very Villiers.
---------------------------------
JACK

584X is An OTS" Off The Shelf" engine. This is stated on the (AUS) Villers engine spec chart.

Yes Alot of engines where supplied to OEM, and their Prefixes depict this....eg 132X as you know is Victa. However this is/was only a Std spec OTS" engine.

Cheers...

Hello Mal

Thank you for that. I'm not good at TLAs
What Villiers engine chart? I have no docs that show 584X.

Any chance we can get scanned copies of your docs to verify
584X as a standard spec engine.

Oh. also, why do you think this engine would have been used
'especially on pumps'. It has no threaded shaft...?

Any information for the record most welcome.
I have stated what I have researched about the Ballarat Factory,
but I would like to record more about the engine models.

The MK10 & 12 engines would have been used on numerous horticultural
and agricultural applications. I'm just glad Chris is documenting one.

----------------------------
JACK

All Australian Villiers engines are listed along with their Model type, prefixes and the company whom they were supplied to....

Where no company is listed means the engine is an OTS engine, generally in Std form.

An expanded chart also lists engine type, and all fitments and options used on each engine including their pt nos.

The lack of a threaded shaft has no relevance, as it has a keyway....for pulley fitment

And your correct, the 10 and 12 were widely used for Rural/agricultural purposes

-----------------------------------
This guy was real helpful when I was doing my MK2 and 3s and Im sure he had heaps of NOS stuff for your industrials.

Might be worth a call

http://www.vaces.com.au/photos/villiers-parts/

Hello Mal

Thanks for that again. But in what doc?

The problem with my documents is that they do not cover later engines.
They go up to about 285X. My document cannot help ... but I attach it below.
[I will move it to the History Forum in due course].

So... if the engine is not listed are you making an assumption?
Do you have the same doc?

I mention the threaded shaft because it was the standard spec. for pumps -
at least I think so. So it is relevant isn't it Mal? You said they were
used 'especially on pumps'. Is that Chris's engine or MK12s or ...?

Do you have any docs that can help here; as I'm keen to differentiate
fact from assumption & speculation.

My docs just don't help me, for Chris and his great little MK12.

---------------------------------
JACK

All interesting, my engine has no prefix. It's a later Norton Villiers, it has a reduction gearbox fitted and I have seen the same setup on a reel mower. My engine




Fitted up to a Reel mower with reduction gearbox


Any information would be helpful.

Hey Paul,

Not sure we are on the same page?

Ive no idea who your engine was supplied to The MK12 was fitted to many Makers machines, Industrial, mowers, whatvever.

They would all have their own prefixes for each manufacturer they were sold to.

BUT, if you wanted to buy a replacement engine for that machine, Villiers would give you a Std spec Mk12 off the shelf which would have the Prefix 584X to fit to it....its Basically a generic code for a NON assigned Australian MK12 engine...


Does that make sense? Thats all I can tell you about Chris's engine.

Im not sure your meaning with the threaded shaft Jack? Chris's machine has a keyway, alot of the mk12s ive seen have used a pully and belt to drive the pump.....

Thanks Mal, I think your right. I will re read this all again. Thanks for replying.

Thanks everyone for all the information and links for parts. I feel I know a little about Villiers now..

The mark 12 is starting to look like engine again,all bolts and bare metal is coated in clear to stop rusting. I'm going to make a base for it out of Australian Red Cedar should look good..

Pure Purfection Chris...

The Red Cedar will make it a Beautiful Display piece.

Maybe extend the cedar and hook it up to an old school/period PUMP assy....:)

Very nice Chris, I agree with HT6 a pump to give it some work.

Hi guys. I've just about got the stand/base out of Cedar done its looking good will load pics when finished..
I agree run period pump assy with it I will keep a lookout form a suitable pump..

Also here are the numbers Mal for the two stroke Villiers, it doesn't seem to have anything number wise on the cast inlet..

Hey Chris,

Cant wait to see the stand mate:)

Thanks for the Numbers, ill add them to my records.

7/58...

377X prefix is a Mk 3 Midget, fully Complete ready to run assy made for Champion. (Champion Rotary mower)

D119AU should be the inlet manifold pt no...

Another Rare find Mate, Definately one to hang on to as it could be mated to its mower one day....And knowing you, You'll find one lols

There are a few Champion Rotary examples on Google Images, if you want to look:)

Thank's for that Mal.

So it's off a Champion Rotary mower very interesting I've never heard of them before.

The mark 12/2 is finished! am happy with the way it's turned out. I will let everything cure for a week or two before I start it, but yeah I'm really getting into this stationary engine thing .

how sweeeet does that look !!!

Your Killing me Chris!

That is the most Amazing Display of a small Engine Ive ever seen!

Youve come a long way. Your attention to detail is second to none...Vintage Perfection!!!

Just Google Champion in images or look on Trove for info mate:)

Thanks guy's.
I'm no carpenter but it worked out looking good in the end I think. Now to work out what my next project will be hmmm. Cheers

wow..just came upon this ...how awesome