OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa Model 4 Automatic Specifications

Great analysis, Blue. I didn't pick up on the reference to the alloy base in the final ad - that is damn curious, and as you say, makes a valid argument for the "naked" automatic being the (or one of the) "standard" models. I'm still trying to digest all the info...

I'm going to carry on searching for every model 4 reference/image I can find, and will continue to post them here, up until a mod decides a dedicated stickied thread may suit better.

I won't go and repost other info from the forum at this point, as Jonesy said, there must be a quicker way of drawing it together - I hope! But if you want to repost any and all model 4 images/info on this thread, that would be great.

Sounds great Unkie, We can continue to chat here for now. I think if anyone wants to contribute images and info maybe hold of and gather all they like,even if its just one picture. Then when and if the mods decide,we can maybe have 3 sub forums...One for known Accurate" Specs and History. One for owners images and light history of what they know about the machine. And one for genral discussion on anything related to The Automatic....I know space on the server is limited,but The mods can let us know there thoughts.

I was trying to nail a transition date from the Automatic to the Special and found the following:

This model five is held at the Powerhouse Museum, and was given to the museum by the Victa company. It had been retained by the company as the first example produced of this model, so if anyone needs to see an accurate example of a Model 5 Series 1, this would be it:


The museum does not mention an accurate release date, other than it being designed in 1957 and released in 1958.

So, I thought determining an accurate date for the release of the Special would be a good start. This is the earliest mention I could find. It dates to the 25th of Feb, 1958:




The next step was to see if I could find any advertisement that mentioned both the Automatic AND the Special, thus confirming both models were being retailed at the same time. This ad dates to the 12th of march, 1958:



To determine a terminal date for the sale of the Automatic, I simply went to the next listed advertisement for the Standard, which is notable for the absence of any reference to the Automatic, suggesting an end date to sales of the Automatic as no later than the date of this advertisement - the 29th of August, 1958:



Just trying to build a verifiable chronology at this point...

Another curious discovery: It appears those small holes on the front and rear axle housings were originally intended to be part of the Predicta throttle mechanism. Notice the cables running front and back to the housings and the lack of carby side throttle cables as was later adopted:

Very well done and Accurate Unkie...The release dates are known for these models:)
Its the Serial runs that are the elusive part.

Exactly as we discussed,the Automatic and Model 4/Special crossed paths,but only ever so briefly because of the demise of the Automatic.
The main issue with prevoious information was the the fact of the Specials" existance as a model 4 before the model 5 was released. Many believe it was never released before the introduction of the Model 5... I have since many times found different,having owned original examples of shall we say Model 4 Specials,and my own research.
But I This ad youve produced confirms this to be the case!!!And place the Use of the term Special" before the start of the Model 5 was released...Fantastic detective work Unkie,Your doing a fabulous Job in piecing together time lines and actuall existance of Models Prior to their percieved release dates..

The other very Important piece of info youve found lies in the third ad "2 Mighty Petrol Mowers" Note the STD for this era is the Model 2a,this proves also that even though the 2a serial preceded that of the Automatic,they were still being sold together,At least into the early run of the Automatic,and possibly up to the release of the Model 3 STD. This would ensure Victa always had 2 models at any one time. The Special and the STD... Through a little research and enthusiasm youve managed to dispel a few myths that were retained by collectors and add valuable information to the archives..Well Done!!!!

Sorry missed the last image....Hmmmm Interesting Ive seen this image before in the manual,but never thought about it. I assumed they were additional stabilizers for the flap mechs. But ive never seen them on a real life Automatic example.

The small holes at front are for the height adjust nuts to run true. I cant see any way you could get a cable through? In addition the Predicta cable point ran on the other side,out of view in the Diagram...Another reason for the Failure of the Automatic?...Too many fragile intricacies?....

The other thing it shows is that the cables or wires are inside the axle height adjust mech..would they not turn when the height adjust was raised and lowered,repositioning the flap decks accordingly by way of a cam or spindle on the flap mechanism as per diagram? So no matter what the height of the mower the flap would always be at the most affective height? Ive really no Idea. But perhaps your on to something unkie...Anyone else seen this before?

Thanks mate. I cropped the last image a little tight, but this one shows there being no carby side throttle cable, hence my assumption the cables/supports were throttle related:



May have been a concept sketch before production perhaps?

As far as the chronology is concerned, I'm glad you are getting something from the post. For clarity, here is a short summation of the dates:

24/8/57 � First advertisement for the Victa Automatic appears
4/12/57 � Women�s Weekly advertising campaign commences for the Automatic
25/2/58 � The �new� Victa Special first advertised
12/3/58 � Final Women�s Weekly advert appears mentioning the availability of an alloy based �Standard� version. The Victa Special is advertised along-side the Automatic.
13/3/58 � Last mention of the Automatic appears in an advertisement suggesting the �new� Rotomo to be the flagship product
29/8/58 � Both the Special and the Standard (Rotomo) are advertised, with the conspicuous absence of the Automatic

Can you tell me where the model release dates are located, Blue? That kind of irrefutable data will help build a more complete chronology, so I would love to get my hands on it!

its still on gumtree. There was some automatic parts on ebay about a month ago that was withdrawn from sale also....

when i said videos of a working unit i meant one actually cutting grass so we can see the predict setup working

cheers

Noooo There is NO recorded timeline or precise release dates other than advertsiing that im aware of. Let me clarify..The images you have shown and the dates you have found are memory correct to me. I have dates but need to go through my own records to match with yours,but they will be the same....The information is scattered in many posts (and not in this forum) that Im aware of. A lot of the dates you have given are from Ads previously researched by others in the same way you are doing now. There is some timeline information in....Turning grass into lawn"The Victa Story" By John Mason. I dont have a copy since it was a very small print run,and ive been trying for years. Also What info is in there people do not share willingly. Sorry to get your hopes up,but unfortunately this is how we have to gather a lot of our Info,by the way you are doing it now:) In order to obtain exact Victa release dates would be if your lucky enough to have original "Inhouse Victa Memos" The Ads are the only other indication of release. The only other i can think of in this forum who would possibly have any more info or Ads on release dates would be Blumbly

Ahhh, I see. I guessed that would be the case. I'm always baffled as to why people would arrogantly with-hold information... petty, petty stuff.

I guess it re-enforces the value of this king of empirical, research based info. Too many attempts to fill in gaps with hearsay, speculation and half-truths leads to a pretty inaccurate historical record. I'll just keep plugging away, finding tangible facts and post them as I find them. As this research approach falls pretty neatly into my day-job skill-set, I get a fair bit of satisfaction from the process, and do it more to satisfy my own curiosity rather than anyone else, but love the help/support none the less

YES Exactly...Heresay. Unless you do it yourself you can never be sure,but with time and a few heads of interest we should be able to get most of the answers we need.
Unfortunately we need to go on theory at times as no one knows the answer or will not give it away. This ensures at least we can put forward our own theories, ideas and examples forward until we get it right!!!

Like I said after 20+ years,there is so much I dont know still,but im learning and open to any info,theory,fact or opinion That comes my way in order to ensure my Restorations are accurate

Hi Mal, good thoughts there mate, Restoring, Customising and Modifying, is not really the place to be discussing early Victa history....I will discuss this with grumpy and Joe Carroll and see if we can gather all this info together from the various threads and put it all in the one place...perhaps in sub-forums as you have suggested.

Awww...Ooops! Never even noticed what sub forum we were in ...But your absoultely right. Yes let us know your thoughts,as it seems quite a few are passionate about this Model Thankyou Deejay.

Unki, what can I say, you are doing a tremendous job on both the model 4 and the Romoto, with what Blue already knows and what you have dug up this is filling in quite a few gaps, keep up the good work, I dont know where you are finding this stuff cause I've been looking and not finding any of what you have come up with so top job once again.

Cheers Jonesy, glad you find it of interest. Hopefully we can start to build a more complete picture with all this info!

Hi Unkie, we are building a great archive on early Victa...
VM prides itself on being the quintessential Victa information archive.....with your and Mal's research, IMO, that may change in the near future.
Well done guys.

Thanks Deejay! Now if we can get some more help on the ground, such as images of Automatics and Rotos with serial numbers, we might just crack this. There's nothing like a complex project such as this to bring a forum together

Well said, Unkie....this will be of interest to all Victa aficionados form both sides of the fence....Keep up the good work mate....

So I did a google image search and came up with this Predicta. still has the back flap, remnants of the front and has serial number 122228 - Pretty hard to argue this isn't the real deal...So now we are well over the 120,000 mark for confirmed Predicta's:

Omg! You stole blumby's Auto....lols. Yes its a real good example, and will restore nicely:) Is this the highest youve found so far unk? Pity that bloke never came back with his 125, 000 would have been good. Was looking at my 3 model 4's this arvo, all base models non auto 128, 000 and 154, 000 and 303, 000 trying to see anything . Surely they cant have gone over this 128, 000? If especially the first one is a base model....Anyways bring on more numbers! Doesnt jonesy have 2? One in the 120's also?