OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Four Stroke Lawn Mower Frames Honda HR214 Rusted frozen blade bolts

HI All

First off
1st topic post here so please forgive me if I stuffed up
Hope I go the right section for this post etc too

to cut a long story short I got given a badly unloved Honda
(now really it should just be scrapped and maybe keep the engine)

If I can, I'd like to get a new blade on this beast but the blade and the rest of it bits are pretty RS
The Engine seems ok but not sure
does blow a bit of blue smoke at startup
(maybe cause I've had it on it side trying to get the blade off
The self propelled side of it has long ago failed it seems too but no so worried on that)

I sprayed the bolts with WD40 and put Oil on them, have left them but still seems I need the hulk to move them and more likely that would cause more damage
(tried a few tapes on the heads with a hammer as well)

lastly the centre bolt is bend
(done ask me how they managed that)

I think this thing went bush bashing every weekend by the looks of it poor thing.. & still chugging along ..amazing

So any ideas suggestions on how I might achieve this would be welcomed

oh the set up
it is a disc with a full length blade
(2 bolts either side of a center bolt for the disc)
if you need a photo let me know

thinking about it after looking for a blade
this maybe a bit of a Frankenstein
the blade bolts is like this setup
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/index.p...th=1_17_278_279_281&products_id=1606

yet it probably looked more like this in it original condition
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/index.p...th=1_17_278_279_281&products_id=1605

anyway

Thanks people I do appreciate any suggestion that may help

Hi Deejay59. We are definitely going to need a picture, probably more than one. This is the HR194 and HR214 blade mounting as shown in the workshop manual:


We need pictures of yours to see how it is different. Some of the safety features vary from country to country, and we will probably need to get comments from other people when we see your pictures, especially if they are different from the workshop manual diagram.

You said that the blade holder retaining bolt is bent. I do not see how you could tell that it is bent, since it screws fully into the end of the crankshaft. If you mean that its head runs out of true when the crankshaft rotates, it seems more likely that the crankshaft is bent. You can check this by seeing whether the outside of the clutch drive disk runs out of true. If it does, the crankshaft is bent. Fixing that requires stripping the motor, and straightening the crankshaft under a press. As well as the press and suitable press tools, V blocks, a dial indicator, and considerable skill are required to check how true the crankshaft is at frequent intervals as you try to straighten it. In essence, if the crankshaft is bent you should consider whether you can obtain a good second hand crankshaft. If you can't, your engine should probably be considered beyond repair, at least by a private owner with no special skills or equipment.

It runs yeah???

Sell it as is on eBay.
With what you get back you could buy a way decent something else and never have to set foot in a honda dealers showroom.

You sound a little bitter Bob. I think you've posted before that you had a falling out with your local Honda dealer? Deejay59 has been given a free HR214 that runs. If he can fix it for a negligible cost, it sounds like a good outcome to me. This other mower you want him to buy would need to be a fairly decent one to be as good, and there are plenty out there for sale that would need fixing to make them half as good. Of course if the HR214 has a perforated base, or a bent crank, or a ruined shock clutch, that is a different story.

Nah no falling out with any dealer in particular. More a bad tase in my mouth due to the whole way parts systems work in this country.


Point was, Hondas fetch a very good price. Good they may be but in my opinion they are over rated. Over priced, heavy, Parts are over priced, sure you could buy parts from Taiwan off ebay, but its not the real deal just a copy, but usually reasonable quality.
With basic maintinace doing home duties, time verses cost, most people will never see the benifit of a Honda over Masport/Victa/Rover etc.
I got $180 for a running honda self propelled minus catcher that had been dusted, blew smoke like a chimney but it worked. Advertised it as such, all i did was wash it and take pictures. Sold another one that was real sad, not running but turned over with a spare dead engine and got $50.
$180 will buy a pretty decent second hand mower, real good if you dont mind fixing a few small things and changing the oil.



I only feel stronger about ditching the honda after seeing the pic Grumpy put up, I have not heard one good thing about the clutched blade setup.

Had it been a disc with blades my initial advice/comment would have been vastly different.


I do have a fair collection of honda engines here, im sure i can do something with the stuff. Maybe it will convert me. But value for time and value for money i dont see the what the fuss is about.

Howdy, if you can, I'd suggest heating the bolt heads with an oxy accetylene torch, and heat them to the point where they're just starting to glow red. This will allow the heads to deform enough to release the pressure of the spring washer, which will also lose it's strength. At this point, there should also be enough heat in the bolt thread to brake the rust hold on the thread. Just be careful of what else the heat may affect in the assembly though. Once the heating has been done, let them cool naturally. Don't be tempted to cool them off with water, as it may crystalise the metal making the bolts very easy to break.

Obviously when it comes time to reassemble, you will need new bolts and spring washers.

On the drive situation, I have a complete and servicable rear axle, and two sets of handlebar controls if you're interested. Send me a PM if so. Cheers.

If you follow Greg's suggestion, be careful to only heat the bolt head, not the surrounding area, and let it cool off before you do anything else. This should not be difficult to do if you use an oxy torch with a small tip, and hold the tip right in the center of the bolt head. Then reapply Penetrene to the bolt area, and wait an hour or so for it to soak in, before you try to undo the bolts. As Greg said, this often works, because the bolt heats up more than the thread it is in, and when it expands due to the heat it tends to break the rust-bond between the two parts. It may also reduce the brown rust to black FeO, which occupies less volume: this also tends to unfreeze the bond between the parts.

Remember, if the shock clutch or crankshaft seal gets hot, you will have some extensive work to do, and expensive parts to replace.

Hi all

Sorry for not getting back to you all sooner
I do thank you all for your replies thought, so kind of you all

Well further looking at this, it was a borderline case anyway
(just the victa 2 stroke is playing up and this was given to me)

As I said its a pretty sad case and the "thought was" if I could get a decent blade on it plus a little TLC it would do till I sorted something with the victa...thats another story and Ill probably seek advice on that else where later

So Grumpy Thank you for that most informative information

you asked how I knew it was bent ?
well you can see the center bolt through the center blade hole ..
in the diagram it would equate to 10.mm X 25mm

upon further investigation its actually Broken off
which now raises other issues (safety being one)
and makes this really just not worth time and effort

To expand on this, as I said this seems to be a Frankenstein
as I dont think the clutch etc is on it


The clutch and self propelled mechs I think long ago they failed and were done away with so blade Assembly seems to be a ring in from maybe a non propelled version... no idea
(it seems to be held on by sleeving over the "* motor shaft"
(* for want of correct term) and isn't going anywhere)


That said the deck is chipped and cracked and the motor is blowing a bit of smoke as well...but jury's still out on that
(I did put some new oil in)

So I have decided its not worth any real time or effort

so to RodeoBob
Thanks for your suggestion too
I know its a little outside the box of were I wanted to go
(Id kinda feel a bit guilty profiting from it.. and I have to sell the motor... the rest comes free and its your problem to remove it.. Id say :))

on your point on parts yeah well exactly! $$$$
the cost of even trying to partly restore this to some of its former glory is just way not worth it ..I did think about that idea
and decided a new blade, air filter...bit of tlc and thats it

They are heavy too to push and that self propelled feature isn't a luxury but I think its more a necessity on these

Greg
Thats sounds like it would be the go to try
& new bolts would have been first order of the day anyway
yes grumpy your right too... things like that Shouldn't be pushed
so leaving time for cooling and heating just what you need yes..agree

Sadly I dont have that Gear and as I said it has other issues now so..

I do appreciate your offer too Greg and Had I been trying to restore this would have jumped on that offer it does need them
So thank you for it thought, appreciate the offer

the motor not too sure on either and it seems to lack a little power
(bit like the victa issue atm)

Well Id just like to say Thank You guys
I really do appreciate you time & input on this
it was a shot in the dark & I was kinda hopeful
maybe its evil twin might show up and I can gene splice them together


Anyway your replies are appreciated guys

side point;
even thought I love that dirty old 2 stoke Victa
maybe a 4 stroke motor will be the next beast I buy..anyway

Cheers All

PS close the thread if need be mods, Thanks