OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Reel Lawn Mowers, Atco & Villiers etc. Victa Imperial Project

Good Afternoon all,

Long-time lurker, but thought I'd post the latest project up, will be needing some help.

I've been looking for a cylinder mower for some time, but not really found anything close by that's remotely in the budget, would love a Scott Bonnar but anyway...maybe one day...

In the meantime, have acquired a Victa Imperial 16" with the Series 70 MK2 engine. As with most equipment that lives here, the aim is to be well looked after and semi-restored but not too perfect to use.

Looks complete, engine turns over freely however non-running.

A few observations:
1) Doesn't seem to have spark - have tried both the lead and also grounding the spark plug to the cylinder head, and not getting any spark. Not sure if I should get points etc. ordered up or there's something basic I'm overlooking. Will need to become familiar with points ignition I guess.

2) When pushing the machine along, the reel is turning - I assume this means the landroll clutch is not disengaging? Not sure if this needs a new clutch cable or something actually wrong with the clutch. Lot of grease and grass in the chain housing, I guess there are no issues with me degreasing and pressure washing?

3) There looks like the remnants of a hose on the carby, am pointing to it with the screwdriver in the pic, but not sure where it's supposed to go?

Glad of any hints or tips, am a reasonably competent non-professional mechanic more familiar with diesel, but nothing like a project to help learn about ignition etc.

The rest of the fleet comprises Rover 2-Stroke XL with Suzuki M120X, Honda UMK435, Victa Series 80 Tilt-a-Cut, Robin 4 stroke blower, Stihl MS660, MS170, Little Wonder Hedge Trimmer. Hopefully the Imperial feels at home!

Hi AussieHJ
Welcome here we try and help
To answer your questions, don't bother with the points just put an electronic module in the kill switch wire and you will have spark. Sounds like the clutch is not disengaging and where the screwdriver is pointing is the fuel hose inlet.

Thanks NormK,

As far as I can tell, these don't have a kill switch, there is a tab on top of the spark plug that I assume you touch to the spark plug to ground the ignition to kill the engine?

Should I be buying something like https://www.gaspares.com.au/products/ECP633?escape=false - is this what you're meaning to convert to electronic ignition?

Cheers

Hi AussieHJ,
Yes that is the module but if you have an old Powertorque mower laying around on the nature strip all the earlier ones had the module on them, if not you will have to buy one. Pity about not having the kill switch wire, means you will have to pull the fanwheel off, you were going to have to do that to get to the points anyway and you connect the module into the wire that connects to the condensor and then you have to earth the module to the motor somewhere

Thanks NormK,

So I earth the module to the engine somewhere and remove the points, connect ignition module directly to the condensor? I'll pull the flywheel off when I get a chance and have a look - if I can clean the points up and get her running, I'll just do that for the time being.

Yes do whatever, and you can remove or just leave the points there the module will work it out.

Got the flywheel off last night and didn't break it which is good! Fair bit of grease and dust here but can't see anything very out of order.

Second pic is a quick brake cleaner and compressed air clean.

Any idea where I can find a repair manual for test procedures etc? I did look through the manual section but might have missed it.

Cheers

Hi Aussie,
clean the points, take the spark plug out, put the fanwheel back on (don't tighten the nut) and you should be able to spin the motor by hand fast enough to get a spark

I've ordered an ignition module this morning too so hopefully that is here soon - to suit Powertorque with the external module so hopefully it'll do the job.

Sanded all the connections with 400 grit sandpaper and cleaned the points tonight. Couldn't get a consistent spark but did get a spark a couple of times. Not sure if I couldn't turn it over fast enough or what. Points seemed fairly worn from my inexperienced eye.

Ok, glad to say electronic ignition module is here. Just before I cut things up, it seems to me from the diagram provided that all I need to do is connect the former wire from coil to points/condenser to the module, and the module to ground. Seems almost too easy, is this correct?

Red wire to module, module to ground?

And since I'm overthinking this...

Any reason I can't cut, solder, heatshrink the wires together?

Does the Module have to be mounted externally on the cowling or something, or can I put it here provided it doesn't foul on the flywheel?

Just make sure that you put the module wire under the e-plate otherwise it will end up fowling on the flywheel.

Thanks Bruce,

So no issues with me cutting the terminal off the wire from the coil and connecting to the module but making sure to route it behind the plate. Might use a cable tie or 2 to make sure it says out the way.

Thanks very much. Will see if we can get the old girl making some noise again!

So, a couple of attempts later, I think this will do.

Routed the wire behind the plate like this to start with, but the flywheel was rubbing slightly, so I decided to try a different path.

Also noticed that the attachment of the red wire to the coil looked pretty sketchy so I got the soldering iron onto it and put a new wire on. Hopefully this doesn't mess anything up.

Have got a spark from lead to head once, with a few attempts, but couldn't get anything with the (new) spark plug grounded to the head.

Will reassemble further over the weekend hopefully.

Hi Aussie, that looks good and should work no problems, only variable now is the coil

Hi AJ ,Br and NK

I prefer to use an electronic coil instead as this gives you a negative current to the centre electrode, the above setup still works just not as good .

Cheers MW

So, a bit of progress. Put everything back together, fitted a new air filter, filled the tank with fresh fuel mix and tried starting.

Sounded like it was hitting a couple of times but wouldn't keep running. Pulled off the decompressor, checked it closed when vacuum was applied (it did) so reinstalled with a new crush washer stolen off a fairly new spark plug.

Next pulled the muffler off, exhaust port looks pretty clean and piston looks good, but tapped the muffler on the ground and quite a lot of carbon came out. Thought I'd flush it with water to make sure it was clear but the water doesn't seem to flow out again, so assume it's badly blocked.

With the muffler off, engine will run with throttle wide open for 4 or 5 seconds before cutting out.

Pulled the bowl off the carby, destroying the gasket in the process, and had a look inside, collected some fairly horrible looking fuel in the container I was using to catch the fuel but it may well be dirt from the outside of the bowl because it was pretty grubby.

Anyway, have ordered a carby kit and will replace everything I can from the kit. Any reason I can't put the carby in a tub of carb dip to make sure it's clean? Not sure what plastic parts are inside that I can't see.

The muffler has got quite a rattle, seems to flow fine 'upside-down,' so assume a baffle has come loose or something. Have ordered a new one, all the replacements seem a little different to the imperial muffler, specifically relating to the outlet but I suppose it shouldn't matter.

I would highly advise against dipping the whole carby in a dip. It shouldn't have that many plastic parts as its ungoverned and wont have the plastic governor gears but wouldn't want to risk it

Well, carby is rebuilt with new gaskets and main jet o-ring, and new muffler fitted, but she still won't run properly.

Sounds almost like backfiring out the intake, is there any way to adjust the timing on these engines?

Muffler gets warm, but doesn't sound quite right, and won't run for more than a second or so

Hi Aussie,
Timing is fixed so problem is still in the carby. If it will fire for a second it tells me it hasn't been straight fueled so carby is the issue

I don't think it's been straight fuelled - with a spark plug in place of the decompressor it's definitely got compression.

Got me a bit boxed then...

Hi Aussie
compression does not indicate it hasn't been straight fueled, a look in through the exhaust port and if any scoring on the piston is a dead giveaway. If not it is a carby problem. Another way to test for carby problem is to put a puff of starter fluid down the plug hole and if it fires for a second that proves carby

Thanks Norm,

From what I can see in the exhaust port, piston looks good.

Might be time for a whiff of starter fluid, don't like the stuff but it's worth a shot

Aussie, if it fires on starter fluid then guaranteed carby is the issue

Ok, so have tried some starter fluid, she seems to try and fire on this, but sounds like a bit of backfiring out the intake.

Seems it's time to do some more digging in the carb.

I should add, there's a definite 'bang' , usually I think from the muffler but occasionally from the intake.
Also,. after quite a length of time trying to start, the muffler is hot to touch, but also the intake hose is warm which I wouldn't have expected.

It's not possible for this electronic ignition setup to be incompatible with the coil or something is it?

Hi AussieHJ,

I just use a spray bottle with 2 stoke mix but starter fluid works well when sprayed into the air filter housing with the air
filter element removed , some times 2 strokes won't run properly without the snorkel and filter housing installed .

I've had a 2 stroke backfire when the spark is weak ,usually a bad spark plug or coil.

It might be worth filing the points and putting them back in so you can set the timing if the coil plate is adjustable some
have adjustment and some don't ,then once the motor is running fit the module.

Might be easier to remove the starter and put a socket extension in a drill then use the drill with a socket to start the mower.

It can only be one of 3 things stopping it running if you have 2 of the 3 right ,1 spark problem ,2 fuel problem ,3 mechanical problem.

If the crankcase seals are leaking it will be hard to start.

Cheers
Max.

Hi Max,
What I seem to find is if I put starter fluid through the carby and I get nothing and then if I put fluid down the plug hole and it fires then I am pretty sure it is a crank seal

Hi Norm,

Yes there are a few ways to check for leaks without doing a Vac or pressure test and I'm sure you've done these tests below.

You get different results depending on how bad the seals are leaking ,sometimes I just put about 10 squirts of oil into the
spark plug hole then put the plug back in ,then turn the motor over a few times ,after you let the mower sit for
a couple days you can see oil running down the crankshaft.

If you know the carby is good but the motor is running too fast you know there has to be air leaking into the
motor also when a motor runs and you turn the fuel tap off and the motor revs up before cutting out.

Sliding a 1 to 2 thou feeler gauge between the crank and the seal will be a loose fit when the seals are worn and hardened from age.

You can start a 2 stroke then spray starter fluid at the seal and if the revs change the seal is leaking.

I've had a few 2 strokes that will only rev out if you almost completely crush the snorkel tube when running ,must
be giving the engine more fuel to compensate for the extra air leaking into the engine.

Automotive seals generally stay soft for about 10 years,so as we know the seals are fairly suspect on old mowers etc.

Cheers
max.

Good afternoon all, life got in the way and got back to this last weekend.

I purchased a known good second hand coil, points, condenser and fitted these, and an all-metal G3 carby that was also known good and cleaned/seals replaced.

Second pull she fired and 3rd pull she started.

150 square metres of mowing later, I think we can safely say she's running!

Reel and bottom blade could obviously use a grind, I think the drive clutch cable needs replacement and the cut isn't 'square' but surprisingly good for a machine I don't expect has mown for the best part of 10 years!

My lawn has been neglected too over the last 6 months and isn't the best canvas to work with...

I don't suppose anyone knows who would do a reel sharpen/grind in the Wagga area?

Very good well done looks good