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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,938
Likes: 276
Forum Historian
Quote
Do you have access to SB production data? I would love to know what year my mower was made. (2887).
Hello Voytek S
Alas, no records survive from the later SB period.

Quote
Heavy Flywheel = Light Clutch and Light Flywheel = Heavy Clutch
Hi Max,
the thing is that the light-flywheel Kirby powered both the 33 and 45.
The same power unit was coupled to both clutch designs.

I can only make this point: -
The 45 was the first SB scalable reel design - meaning that it
could be made in 14, 17, and 20" variants - all with the padded
alloy cone clutch. The 33 was a one-size design.

For me, the padded clutch, using die castings, simply
saved SB money - at a time when reel mowers were being
challenged by the rotary revolution.

Cheers
----------------------
Jack

Membership information
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Jack

Originally Posted by CyberJack
the thing is that the light-flywheel Kirby powered both the 33 and 45.
The same power unit was coupled to both clutch designs.


I was thinking Kirby made a cast iron flywheel as well because the Scott Bonnar parts manual lists 2 different
Flywheels.

Cheers
Max.

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kirby_hk_sb_parts_manual.png (240.39 KB, 74 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,938
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Forum Historian
Hi Max
I'm thinking that both flywheels were alloy,
but reflect the two different ignition systems Tecumseh were
using at the time.

Was it Phelon and Wipac?

Cheers
--------------------
Jack

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Jack

As we know mower engines need a certain amount of rotatable mass to stop the motor kicking back on start up
and low rpm .

The alloy cone clutch with the light alloy flywheel doesn't seem like it would be enough to overcome the kick
back problem.to me unless the alloy cone clutch is a lot heavier than it looks ( eg has a metal weight cast inside it)

I've never owned or worked on a Scott Bonnar reel mower so I can only comment on what I see from the images
but I don't think the alloy cone clutch has a heavy weight cast inside.

Mower manufacturers don't always use a cast iron flywheel to increase the rotatable mass when using a light
rotatable mass on the pto side of the crank (eg alloy cone clutch / alloy pulley ,light bar blade with light boss)

I quickly had a look at 3 Flywheels 2 Wipac and 1 Phelon ,I have limited knowledge on Scott Bonnar
reel mowers but have seen a few removed Kirby motors ,I saw Scott Bonnar motors using Phelon Flywheels
but have no idea what type of cone clutch was originally attached to these motors .


Looking at the 3 flywheels I have ,the light Phelon flywheel weighs 620 grams ,the light Wipac is 650 grams
and the heavy Wipac is 1,360 grams ,so I would think the light alloy cone clutch would use a heavier Wipac
or heavier Phelon flywheel compared to the Kirby motor with the heavy cast iron cone clutch.

The heavier alloy flywheel weighs more than 1 litre of water and a little more than double the weight
of the light alloy flywheel.

That's what I was thinking looking at the parts but can't confirm without more info or having the
two different Scott Bonnar cone clutch mowers in front of me.

Cheers
Max.

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Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 6
Novice
Hi All,
This is how she looks now, all parts sand blasted/ wire brushed, primed and painted. With a non BS engine unfortunately !

Attached Images
SB 33-2887 mid.jpg (305.96 KB, 69 downloads)

Voytek S
Joined: Nov 2013
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Forum Historian
G'day Max, Voytek S and all 33 lovers
Voytek, that machine looks fantastic!

You buck the 45 trend; in preserving a Model 33.
These were great machines and far less common nowadays.

Your interpretation is a credit to the design, even with the
practical changes made.

Max has raised important issues that I can't solve.
He is methodical and thoughtful and learned.

The 'heavy Wipac' flywheel is a most telling observation, and it
may impact on how we match engine to primary clutch when re-powering
these mowers.

This topic is not over, but Voytek has shown ODK members that
the 33 has many features as good as any 45.

Brilliant!

Cheers
---------------------------
Jack

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 6
Novice
Thank you Jack.
I am (as a user of this treasure for something like 10 years) absolutely in love with Her and will never part the company !!!!!

Last edited by Voytek S; 12/11/20 09:06 PM.

Voytek S
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 6
Novice
Max,
The mass of the things attached to the shaft is only a part of the equation - the distribution (or otherwise diameter) of it/them is another important part. It is called "moment".
Light weight but large diameter disk will produce larger moment of inertia then heavier but smaller diameter one. I am sure you agree with me.
Cheers
Voytek


Voytek S
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Voytek S and Jack

Yes well done Voytek the Scott Bonnar 33 looks a very successful restoration , you'd be happy the 33
turned out this well.

I know if two cylinders have the same mass but different diameters, the one with a bigger diameter will have a bigger moment of inertia, because its mass is more spread out. Similarly, if two cylinders have the same mass and diameter, but one is hollow (so all its mass is concentrated around the outer edge), the hollow one will have a bigger moment of inertia.

A rotating object also has kinetic energy ,It follows that the rotational kinetic energy given to the flywheel is equal to the work done by the torque.

The more mass an object has, the more kinetic energy it has.

If I have an empty drink can and compare it too a heavier smaller solid off cut of metal rod the off cut will have more
kinetic energy than the empty drink can.

I know what you were referring to Voytek with the " Light weight but large diameter disk " but I just thought I would
explain how the mass of an object can still be a critical factor.

Cheers
Max.

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1 member likes this: Voytek S
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Jack , Voytek S and all

I was interested just to see what the weight of the Scott Bonnar flywheel would be so I had a look on ODK
here https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6371/scott-bonnar-manuals-parts-list.html

The Wipac Scott Bonnar flywheel was listed as weighing five and a half pounds or 2494 grams (2.4Kg)

Cheers
Max.

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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 21
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tobyoats
My SB33 is back in one piece after the rebuild, the cone clutch without any friction material works well - I just needed to adjust the "adjuster" lock bolt to stop the clutch disengaging and away we go.

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