I'm on an acre of kikuyu with slopes, hot and wet climate plus tricky areas - no one mower will cut it here, but I feel I need a decent sized SP mower. I'm currently trying a few options but unsure if any will workout.
I know there's a lot of different SP options for 21-22" walk behinds on the market (new and recent used models) - ignoring the junk stuff, what do folks feel is the most robust and quality unit/s?
Initially I'd have thought the 3-speed Honda HRU216 drives as they're what the vast majority of contractors use - however I've seen comments on here saying they're to be avoided.
Toro's Personal Pace system seems to have mixed feedback on it but is seen a weak with plastics in several key spots. I've used, its ok. You can find their proper commercial stuff but dunno how they stack up.
Rover has a chain system in their top of the line SP models - but being they're MTD and have the nerve to put a $150 Loncin engine on their $1200 mower I'd rather avoid.
The Masport Commercials are meant to be horrible and have all kinds of issues.
I've read bad things about the drives in the 22" Victa Mulchmasters - apparently a lot of plastic in them and early failures.
I'm unsure if there's a good model out there that uses a belt drive? I had read that on the right one they can be good as not a lot to go wrong and replacing a belt is generally quick and easy.
The one that does have me a little curious is the Honda HRX217's - that have a hydrostatic drive on them. This from reading is a lot more robust that the shaft driven 3 speed - you have to wear the GCV motor instead of the GXV but personally I've used both and find them good enough if you treat them well.
Any others I'm missing or should consider or have the above completely wrong? Are SP walk behinds just as much of a PITA as a basic rideon or should I just bite the bullet and try and track down a Deutscher SP slasher or similar?
Seems a real mine field with all the choices very much tainted.
Hi Nick, as you have worked out it ain't easy, there is nothing there that will do it all. Be careful with the 4 strokes on sloping ground as they could oil starve the motor. The 550's are good but having small wheels make it hard to get through longer grass. The ultimate machine would be a 24 that was self propelled but they didn't build something like that and nobody else has. Only thing I could suggest is getting a Mobilco shiremaster or something similar and seeing if you can fit a Victa 2 stroke motor on it. The Deutschers are good but still 4 stroke and this may cause issues with the oil starvation, depends a bit on how steep the ground is. Nick thinking about it another option would be an Ariens and fit a 2 stroke to it I had one here that somebody had fitted a Suzuki 2 stroke to it but I think the motor would have been a bit short on power. Other disadvantage is the blade is driven directly off the crank whereas the genuine slashers that have a big blade carrier out front taking the load off the motor.
G'day N1KKO, I read your intro and I hope we shall get some valuable real world experiences from your personal proving ground you just acquired.
There was mention a couple of years ago on here about some relatively simple and robust SP system they stopped bringing here and was brought here only in dribs and drabs by individual importers under another name. It had an exposed and ready to access drive.
Don't forget the robust late 1960s Victa self propelled system with rollers on the wheels and well protected drive in a case under the deck. Sadly they ate getting rare and probably difficult to get spares for. Plus they are only an 18" cut for domestic duties.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Hi Nick, as you have worked out it ain't easy, there is nothing there that will do it all. Be careful with the 4 strokes on sloping ground as they could oil starve the motor.
Hi Norm,
Yes, I'll perhaps pop a few photos up but the main part of the 'back' is sloping but likely not bad enough to cause 4 strokes issues - there's some bits down from this that I suspect WOULD - but it's so tricky to get in there that I always do with either the light and go anywhere Mastercut 460 2 stroke or just my Shindaiwa trimmer.
I appreciate the suggestions on the exotic reenine options that might work - personally I love the idea of that type of thing but alas not being as talented as yourself often issues pop up and before you know it a quick tweak of this old gear becomes a 'What was I thinking' moment - which hopefully isn't the case with those 550 Pro's but we will see.
Haha it makes it worse that my wife will chastise me why I'm trying to use older gear and insist that it's simpler to just go and buy a brand new top tier mower - I try to explain to her that it's not as simple as that hence to a degree this thread as it atleast gives me a fall back IF I can't sort this currently motley bunch out....but we'll see on that.
Originally Posted by Mowerfreak
G'day N1KKO, I read your intro and I hope we shall get some valuable real world experiences from your personal proving ground you just acquired.
Hi Mowerfreak, haha yes happy to be a guineapig of sorts though not sure I'm going to have a heck of a lot of great info but will do my best.
Quote
There was mention a couple of years ago on here about some relatively simple and robust SP system they stopped bringing here and was brought here only in dribs and drabs by individual importers under another name. It had an exposed and ready to access drive.
Thats interesting - yes I've read a bunch of threads on SP systems and it's logical that they're all going to have issues but which one is the best, well thats hard to tell.
I really thought the 3 speed Hondas would have been - but that seems to be very much not the case. Over at one of the Mowing forums they seemed to think that the Hydrostatic drive in the HRX217 is the best choice....they'd done a years use and compared the two, being lawn contractors thats a huge sample size and likely the same as a lifetime for a consumer - but their opinion was that the 217 was the better mower than the 216.
I don't know if folks here have much run with those - but seems while it's been out in the USA for nearly a decade, basically unchanged it's only new here. I can't think of another walkbehind that uses a Hydrostatic drive, which from all reports is superior and more reliable tech and well used through rideons and ZT etc.
ALas the makers are very secretive about what they use as their SP systems and thus as a consumer its very hard to figure out whats viable and whats likely to die an early death.
Is funny you mention an 18" cut as part of me thinks that even though I am mowing a solid acre that I should also consider 19" SP's as while they obviously increase the mow time over a 21"+ - they will be lighter and also give more options....where the 21" SP brigade are a bunch of big heavy buggers. So might have to reconsider them as compromise seems the name of the game.
Last edited by N1KK0; 26/02/2003:48 PM. Reason: forgot something
Nick, keep your eyes out for a Ariens, bit rare on the ground but extremely rugged and if you are not worried about the oil starving issues then a 4 stroke Ariens would be my choice, the drive is simple and rugged, Now if we could fit the Ariens drive to the rear of a 24 you would have the ultimate machine. Let me think about this one as I have an Ariens here and a few 24's to play with
Has anyone looked at the 21" TPE's they look very much like the old HRU216 Honda's. I am wondering are they actually the old Honda bases. I am suspicious that Honda has gone cheap and nasty compared to yesteryear.
Hi GregR Stay away from the 216's, motor is the best but the gearboxes are not up to hard work. Ok for manicured big lawns with long straight cuts but they break too easily on anything else
Hi GregR Stay away from the 216's, motor is the best but the gearboxes are not up to hard work. Ok for manicured big lawns with long straight cuts but they break too easily on anything else
Glad you popped that up Norm, as although I detected long ago that the 216's don't have much cred here for their SP systems - I wondered how that meshes with 99% of contractors using them.
My property is definitely not a manicured lawn nor full of nice straight cuts - sloped and winding around all kinds of hazards and obstacles.
FWIW I've been keeping an eye out for a Victa Super 24 - but they rarely pop up. The 550's have been good though so if nothing else comes along I am sure they'll serve me well.
Do you have any thoughts on the SP system for the HRX217 - which I believe is a hydrostatic drive. I know a few of the mower contractor forums thought this was a terrific mower - albeit after you changed the bar blade out for a carrier disc+swing backs. Bummer they cheaped out with the GVC engine on these - though I've found them ok over many yrs use (have a 19" Honda Buffalo Buck thats never had any issues).
Of course I have failed to mention the old rover pro cut 560's what they are like I don't know. But to look at their current range made in China forget it. I wonder is their Engine an OEM Yamaha/Robin design or just another Chonda lol
Why oh why did Rover become a glorified Sanli? They were so respected (though I hate that they swallowed up Scott Bonnar and wiped them out as a name) , while they were made in QLD. Why did they go the China route and discard their good name?
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Of course I have failed to mention the old rover pro cut 560's what they are like I don't know. But to look at their current range made in China forget it. I wonder is their Engine an OEM Yamaha/Robin design or just another Chonda lol
I know a number of their 'Rover' branded engines are Loncin's with a different plastic cover - confirmed chatting with a saleperson many months ago. Lawn contractors used to like the 560's
MF, aint rocket science, it is all about the dollars, no chance of selling Aus built mowers, so tom stay somewhere in the market you have to flog Chinese junk or close up completely. I just hope the federal government, just go and wack 80% tariff on all Chinese products and then we can see how that sh## head country likes that. The world really has to stand up and be counted against this rouge country, they are starting to make North Korea look good.
Don't worry about tariffs. be more concerned that the Chinese currency is artificially pegged to be worth about a 3rd of the $US dollar if their currency was "fully floating" their currency would appreciate that quickly that that Chinese goods would be rather expensive.
Looks like things are heating up a bit with China, I heard this morning that the US is kicking out 1000 students because of security threats. Looks like Chinese students are scattered around the world, not just in Aus. I wonder how many students from around the world go to China for their education?
Ok with all the talk about the weak gearboxes in the Honda 216 and Potentially the TPE 21 (the old model Honda) what do people think is a fair price for a Rover Pro cut 560 (I am willing to accept a clapped out engine for replacement by either a B&S 850E I/C or a Kawa FJ180V Although I suspect that spares for that engine in AU might be thin on the ground, Whats interesting is that it has an oil filter and a fully presurised lubrication system.)
What were the 560's like or did the Honda 216's eclipsed them in both mowing and engine performance.
The 560 looked like a good machine (even when made in China) that Rover threw away to go down market. I have to say I didn't like the 21" MTD's that are badged as Rovers with the Loncin engine.
Hi Greg, Not too easy to come buy but I would look around for an Ariens, no gearbox to worry about, very simple drive set up. I'm putting one together once this lockdown rubbish ends and putting a Honda on it. They are a good machine.
If I was to get a 50/550 the first thing I would look at getting rid of was the Chonda/Loncin and replace it with a 850E I/C The back yard is getting re-turfed and its large enough to justify a SP with the HRU 197 going to the front/back up
Tad much IMHO - it looks like it's had a bit of work and these were selling new for not much more when Masters closed. Its an average deal at best from what I've seen but depends on how much use it's had - I've seen a lot selling for ~$300 range.
I have my questions on this one Norm How does it stack up against the Honda's I note one of the options is fitting a Kohllier which looks to be a Chonda GXV160 clone
There seems to be very little info out there on YT
Hi Greg, The Honda 3 speed is its weak point, the earlier 2 speed was a better unit but long gone now. The Kohllier should be ok, not sure about the Chonda clones. As I said if you want a good drive then look at an Ariens, then decide what motor you want to fit on it. This discussion about what is a good self propelled has been discussed at length here over the years and nothing really stands out. Sounds stupid in this day and age but that is the way it is. Another one that I believe has a decent drive system is the Snapper but I have not had one to investigate how good it is. There is nothing that stands out unless you look at Deutschers but they are a big machine
Norm, I think you will find with pretty much everything coming out of China don't be surprised most makes share the same actual gearbox with the only difference being axle lengths etc. And that is the issue, I wouldn't be surprised that the Masport Commercial uses the same actual gearbox as a Honda. Even the Bases are similar where the gearbox and gearbox obscures half the arch thus reducing wet and long grass performance. MTD/Rover stuffed it when they killed off the 560 by the look of things.
I have a steep yard out the back here ,I've tried lots of different mowers and a few self drive mowers and ride on mowers but I prefer a $50 Chinese 4 wheel 125 cc motor bike towing a modified side discharge mower.
I have seen this slasher mower that looks good for hills but it would be expensive.
I have a steep yard out the back here ,I've tried lots of different mowers and a few self drive mowers and ride on mowers but I prefer a $50 Chinese 4 wheel 125 cc motor bike towing a modified side discharge mower.
I have seen this slasher mower that looks good for hills but it would be expensive.
[video:youtube][/video]
Cheers Max.
A quad towing a utility mower??? Well if thats what it takes fair play to you. Sounds very steep. Thankfully nothing that bad for me.
That mower you linked is about $USD3000 and I highly doubt you'd find an Australian seller let alone parts etc. It's a hydrostatic drive unit - which the Honda HRX217 also is - again I'm surprised there's not been any chat about this one at all as apparently it has some good feedback on its drive reliability. Any thoughts on it?
That mower you linked is about $USD3000 and I highly doubt you'd find an Australian seller let alone parts etc. It's a hydrostatic drive unit - which the Honda HRX217 also is - again I'm surprised there's not been any chat about this one at all as apparently it has some good feedback on its drive reliability. Any thoughts on it?
N1KK0, you would have to contact Red Roo in Australia they say you can hire before buying.
Deckson slasher and Deutscher slashers are good . Masport slashers do a good job and I've seen them very cheap second hand .https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WMwP6Wu0WzWhOcOY-tezH8imA5IvfCRiIVbcpRL6J7M/edit
Hi Max, My old man bought an Ariens when they moved into their new place in Narre Warren. It was so steep my son asked them if they had bought the block by mail order. Can't remember how big it was but about a couple of acres. Up the front was reasonably flat but past the back of the house it dropped down to the creek and it was pretty steep, I found it difficult to walk up and down and that was 30 years ago but the old man was able to keep it cut with the Ariens. After he died my son used it for a few years at his place and now my grandson has been using it in his mowing business. It has the fixed front wheels and the one I have here has the swivel front. I feel bad for my old man because when he bought it (it was pretty expensive ) I just said "that's nice dad " and never went into the garage to look at it. They are a fantastic mower and well worth tracking one down if you want a robust self propelled mower. They are well worth fitting a brand new engine to if you find one with a worn out one
Funny you link this as my Father had one (a slightly later model than the one shown) when I was young - I recall using it mowing his properties lawns. Good mower indeed.
Originally Posted by maxwestern
Deckson slasher and Deutscher slashers are good . Masport slashers do a good job and I've seen them very cheap second hand .https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WMwP6Wu0WzWhOcOY-tezH8imA5IvfCRiIVbcpRL6J7M/edit
I've seen Masport slashers for $100 second hand but the one above they are asking $500.
I know Deutscher well - I keep an eye out for them. Not so much the others. Yeah walk behind slasher prices seem to really vary - you've just got to be lucky.
Hmmmm yes I know this model as well - can't say I'm a fan of the stuff BBTA puts out. It comes across as really low level Chinese junk and I can imagine a lot of rust and breakages within a couple of yrs. The reviews I read on this unit seemed to reflect this with people saying the parts used were very poor quality.
Is a few hours drive from me and I'm unsure if it'd fit in our car - but seems based on a old US model they made here in Australia. I know the motor is well regarded and again not much can go wrong with the drive system.
Haha again I can't buy a comment from the sages on the Honda HRX217 - that said there's not a lot of them around, Honda made a mess of their mower range over the past 5yrs or so - very unclear whats what in the hierarchy.
Hi N1KKO, I can't give you any advice regarding the 217 because I have not been up close and personal to one
Hi Norm, I did figure as much - you're very generous in sharing your knowledge so didn't think you were withholding on us. :-) As mentioned, they're not overly common as Honda made a plethora of confusing 'consumer' grade SP mowers - only the HRY216 being deemed commerical grade but folks have stated that the HRX has the better SP system, being that it's hydrostatic.
